Formal board meeting minutes from 2010 through present. Please Note: The board typically approves minutes from one meeting during the next board meeting, so minutes will be published roughly one month later than the scheduled date. Other corporate records are published, as is an alternate categorized view of all board meeting minutes.
A. FY22 Budget The following inputs have been collected as input to the board. See the President's report for context and associated request. FY17 Min FY22 FY22 Max FY22 Income Total Public Donations 89 90 110 135 Total Sponsorship 968 900 1,000 1,100 Total Programs 28 28 28 28 Interest Income 4 4 4 4 ----- ----- ----- ----- Total Income 1,089 1,022 1,142 1,267 Expense Infrastructure 723 868 868 868 Program Expenses 27 27 27 27 Publicity 141 273 352 540 Brand Management 84 92 141 218 Conferences 12 12 12 12 Travel Assistance 62 0 79 150 Treasury 48 49 51 61 Fundraising 8 18 23 23 General & Administrative 114 50 139 300 ----- ----- ----- ----- Total Expense 1,219 1,390 1,693 2,199 Net -130 -369 -552 -933 Cash 1,656 290 -259 -1,403 Notes: 1) Units are thousands of US dollars 2) Cash projections are based on linear change in budgets for FY18-FY21 Discussion: First, a clarification that the first column is the approved budget for FY17 and the next three columns are possible fy22 budgets: Second column is minimal FY22 budget Third column is “nominal”, linearly projecting the FY17 budget to FY22 Fourth column is if we expand the services in many areas Jim: looks like brand management and publicity are the most malleable parts Sam: there are several areas that could be changed Jim: we should try to see what a reasonable budget should be and then see if we can adapt sponsorship to match our needs; thinking we could really get more sponsorship Sam: but e.g. should we even have a TAC? Marvin: Those areas (TAC etc) are investments that we believe are wise, but which we might choose not to make in slim times Ross: some of the expanded publicity could lead to more sponsorship Marvin: going for minimal budget also implies shutting down incubator Jim: we should go for the middle column and see if we can figure out how to get there Shane: we should set a target about halfway between the minimal and expanded budget Bertrand: could we consider a really minimal “survival” budget? Jim: that was supposed to be the minimum column Sam: survival is a bit less than the first column; would prefer not to pursue survival budget Brett: it’s worthwhile to try to be ambitious about the budget; at least meet the nominal budget Sam: recommend a f2f meeting in March to resolve direction on fundraising; maybe in Washington or Boston; with a follow-on meeting in Miami Sam: sounds like we have consensus to try to strive for the nominal budget and see if we can achieve income to meet it
A. There seems to be an unmet need for documentation of overall ASF policy. Either a single page, or a small set of pages, authored and maintained by the board would be helpful. Ideally this list would be light on details and heavy on pointers. The consensus of the board is that this is worthwhile to pursue. B. Role of Brand Management as it relates to PMCs. Do we empower PMCs to do what is best for their communities, and let a thousand flowers bloom, even to the point where we allow actions that may limit our abilities to enforce our marks? Or do we treat Brand as a core part of our unique Apache model for community, and require consistency in approach across all PMCs and third parties, even if it means denying use of marks to friendly third parties in ways that would benefit communities? More specifically: 1) Is the Trademark Policy a policy or a set of best practices? https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ 2) Are PMCs the wrong tool for trademark enforcement? The board has previously concluded that brand management has the authority to set branding policy for the foundation and for PMCs (Minutes: July 16, 2014). PMCs may request exceptions to policy, and such exceptions are to be publicly documented. In addition to this policy, Brand Management provides best practices for PMCs to handle branding issues. The board concludes that PMCs are a valid means for trademark enforcement, and are responsible for handling all external branding issues they become aware of. PMCs may request assistance from Brand Management as required. However, Brand Management does not unilaterally handle branding issues. C. Discussion of Brand Management during the December meeting raised a question about whether a Director who serves as VP, Brand Management would have a conflict of interest by participating in the discussion. The Board concludes that Directors who also serve as non-compensated, volunteer officers are not presumed to have a conflict of interest when discussing or voting upon topics related to their officer role(s), aside from their own appointment or continuance as an officer.
A. Role of Brand Management as it relates to PMCs. Do we empower PMCs to do what is best for their communities, and let a thousand flowers bloom, even to the point where we allow actions that may limit our abilities to enforce our marks? Or do we treat Brand as a core part of our unique Apache model for community, and require consistency in approach across all PMCs and third parties, even if it means denying use of marks to friendly third parties in ways that would benefit communities? Generalities: 1) Is the Trademark Policy a policy or a set of best practices? https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ 2) Are PMCs the wrong tool for trademark enforcement? Specifics: 1) Can a PMC decide that it is OK for a third party to make use of an ASF Mark in their product name? 2) Can a PMC decide that it is OK for the only attribution to the ASF for use of a mark to appear in a link in a small font at the bottom of a page? 3) Can a PMC decide that it is Brand Management's job to contact a third party who is making use of the PMC's name; or even to decide that no contact is necessary? Brand Management Discussion Marvin: it’s a policy, but a bit too verbose; can use improvement, but brand owns it Mark: it’s a policy but can have exceptions; enforcement must be delegated to PMCs with advice from VP Brand. Can a PMC unilaterally decide policy on their own? No. Sam: if there is an exception to policy should PMCs have to get approval from VP Brand? Mark: if PMC wants to act outside the policy they need to work with VP Brand. Brett: likes consistency; there's a good example in the way the press PMC handles publicity policy Chris Mattman: in regard to specifics: yes, yes, yes, as long as decisions are documented on archived list the last decision on board was PMCs should take a more active role, so this looks like a change from best practice to policy Sam: this wasn’t a change; there has always been a policy Brett: PMCs should still be very involved but it is a policy; there should be minimal burden on PMCs but the policy gives them teeth against bad actors; think of it as not to be holding PMCs to rules, but helping them Chris Douglas: there was a recent dispute with VP Brand from the October report about Hadoop China conference; VP Brand was dissatisfied with how Hadoop is managing the brand there are still lots of people showing up to work on hadoop, so who is negatively affected the way we are managing? how is hadoop PMC failing the mission? trademark enforcement is not something that engineers will do well; the value of a particular brand is limited Jim: what I see is that the public perception is there is an elite group of vendors who can make use of Hadoop marks but others cannot, and this is not a defensible situation for marks to be valuable they have to be protected; we must remember we are a 501c3 and must abide by our charter. so, we can enforce a tight policy where all vendors are playing on level field (good) or we show favoritism to some vendors, or we could lose the brand (both of which would be a bad outcome) this is potentially a slippery slope so needs to be tightly controlled and defended Bertrand: the web page with Brand policy is IMO too detailed and impossible for us to accept as policy as a whole. my suggestion would be to replace that page with a minimal list of "atomic" numbered items that the board can review to decide which items are policy and which ones are best practices only Sam: would like at least General question 1 answered as soon as possible, preferably today unless more talk might change peoples' minds Brett: leaning toward deferring a vote on whether brand has a policy or not; should come to agreement and have a resolution to vote on next board meeting AI Sam: lead the discussion offline and prepare another resolution to vote on for next meeting B. Appointing an Assistant Treasurer Kevin McGrail had the position of Assistant Treasurer before taking a leave; now that he is back, by acclamation the board reappointed him to the position.
A. Executive Officer Appointments Sam appointed as President, replacing Ross. Ross appointed as EVP, replacing Rich. Sam steps down as Director. Rich named as his replacment. Rich named to a new position: VP, Conferences.
A. Appointing a Vice Chairman Greg Stein is relinquishing his Director and Vice Chairman roles. Discussion of appointment of a new Vice Chairman. With Greg's resignation from the Board, there are two vacancies: Director and Vice Chair. After analyzing the results of the last board election, Sam Ruby was the person who would have been elected if one of the nine had not accepted the position. Therefore, the board proposed to appoint Sam to the board. With one abstention, the board appointed Sam Ruby to the board by a vote of a majority of Directors present. Chris Mattmann volunteered to serve as Vice Chair. With one abstention, the board appointed Chris Mattmann to the position of Vice Chair by a vote of a majority of Directors present. B. Appoint other executive officer replacements as needed With the naming of Greg Stein to the position of Infra Administrator, and his subsequent resignation from the board and from his position as Vice Chair, there will be a period of reorganizing the duties of the executive staff. With this in mind, no other changes will be made at this time.
A. Executive VP responsibilities B. Status of Infrastructure Lead C. Paid support for other areas and impact on fundraising Please refer to this month's President's report for background information for this discussion. A. Executive VP responsibilities Can we increase responsibilities of EVP role? Jim: seems Rich’s heart is in ApacheCon so it makes more sense to have someone to take more of Ross’s responsibilities and have Rich focus on conferences Ross: While Rich is focused on conferences, he has been very involved in other issues. Biggest concern is workload, and need people who can step up. Chris: Maybe it’s time to create a VP, Conferences role Ross: But we want to move away from the ApacheCon model to project-focused conferences Rich: One concern is the relationship between conferences and brands Marvin: Is there an issue with reporting relationships for contractors? Ross: There should not be confusion. The buck stops at the VP; the President (or EVP) is only there to unblock issues Jim: Foresees EVP getting more involved in sponsors and fundraising, hiring infra @Ross: Prepare a proposal for VP, Conferences @Jim: Prepare a proposal for EVP role B. Status of Infrastructure Lead Ross: Operations vs. Infra: should not have both paid management positions Tom: focus now is on back filling staff that we have lost Brett: What does infra look like going forward? Chris: What happened to the Infra Lead Search Committee? Didn’t go anywhere. Ross: The Infra Lead didn’t get much traction. We’re looking now at Infra Lead as specifically technical. We need to hire senior technical infrastructure staff Chris: Adding more infrastructure doesn’t make sense without strategy for solving the VP Infra position Ross: We are backfilling contractors but still intend to hire technical infra lead. Still have a problem with liaison between infra and projects Marvin: Pleased with efforts to staff infra Chris: Also pleased with backfilling progress @Chris: Kick off discussion on @members for VP Infra @Brett: Make sure discussion progresses in time for next board meeting C. Paid support for other areas and impact on fundraising Brett: Do we have a model for infra going forward? Chris: I just don't feel that as an ASF member or community member that I know exactly what the direction is for infra, and strategy, etc. Ross: There are proposals on the table that are being discussed. But they are not formal enough to vote on at the moment. Jim: Maybe we can prioritize based on immediate need (e.g. TAC is time sensitive)
@Tom: Virtual will help with recruiting infra staff.
A. Craig proposes that the board appoint Sam Ruby to the position of Assistant Secretary. The board appoints Sam Ruby to the office of Assistant Secretary. B. Jim wishes to discuss the OSI Affiliate program Jim: a few years back, Jim was on the OSI board; ASF thought it might make sense to join OSI but didn't match OSI who were trying to establish themselves. OSI is now trying to refocus on community aspects and now sees affiliates as helping. Jim volunteers to continue discussion with OSI. Chris: ok Marvin: will we have to opt out or opt in to OSI decisions? Jim: OSI will notify affiliates before taking action affecting them. In fact, ASF can help redefine affiliate interaction Mark: will OSI expect affiliates to pay dues? Jim: no dues for affiliates. Mark: what are benefits to ASF? Jim: gives ASF more opportunity to promote The Apache Way; up to now projects might not be steered to ASF @Jim: continue to work with OSI and report to the board next month
A. Executive Officer Appointments The board reaffirms the existing officers with the exception of Treasurer; Ulrich Stärk is named as the new treasurer and the role of Assistant Treasurer is now vacant. The role of Assistant Secretary remains vacant. Ross encouraged all officers to make as much use of Virtual as practical.
A. Timing of Executive Officer Appointments
A. Self Service and Infrastructure An outstanding JIRA issue against the infrastructure "self service" application was unilaterally assigned to the Whimsy PMC without consultation, and another was initially closed as WONTFIX, triggering a larger discussion that ended up on board@. Included in that discussion was a comment by the current VP of Infrastructure that he would be open to the infrastructure team "tak(ing) responsibility for Whimsy the service", and as a part of that impose a release discipline upon the Whimsy PMC. Meanwhile, an ASF member legally changed her name. She and the secretary were able to reflect that change in our records and on the site without any assistance by paid contractors. New committers were given accounts based on a highly automated process whereby the infrastructure staff run scripts that access requests stored as structured data in svn. This data was placed in svn by a tool that was originally part of whimsy and essentially jointly owned by the whimsy PMC and the infrastructure team. This suggests a different division of responsibility: 1) The infrastructure team (consisting of contractors and volunteers) maintain control over master copies of ASF data resources, including but not limited to: Subversion, Git, LDAP, and mailing lists. Some of these resources may be mirrored (in some cases, bidirectionally). 2) Groups (such as PMCs and the secretarial team) are given access control rights to resources that they can manage. Where this is not directly practical for security or other reasons (e.g., the new account example above), tools that process authenticated requests stored in an open format will be developed and deployed. 3) Multiple tools ("let a thousand flowers bloom") that make use of the access described above may be developed. One can imagine a future where the Perl scripts that PMC chairs use today are phased out in favor of Syncope and/or Whimsy. Or an alternate future where a separate VM is provisioned for ssh use by pmc chairs to run these scripts. Decisions made by the infrastructure team to maintain or discontinue the current "self serve" (id.apache.org) tool can be made either in consultation with, or entirely independent of, those made by other PMCs. Anti-patterns to watch out for: (1) requiring PMCs to issue JIRA requests to select features for their projects, (2) requiring users to use a particular user interface to make a request, without providing authenticated users access to the underlying data, and (3) tools deployed without runbooks or other documentation on how they work. Now seems to be an opportune time to discuss how infra can implement self-service as a strategy. Sam will work with Ross as infra re-tools. B. Another month when there appears to have been a number of PMCs that didn't report, needed reminders and/or reported late. Not sure of the cause, even less sure of the solution. But it seems to be an increasing problem...? Some stats: * https://whimsy.apache.org/board/missing-reports * of the 13 missing PMC reports this month; 3 of those PMCs missed the previous month (and one of those is heading to the attic); additionally 1 was not accepted the previous month * 3 PMCs proactively stated that they will be reporting next month
A. Over the last few months I've noticed a drastic decrease in the number of reports submitted on-time, or at all. What's going on? Are the board reminders going out? Historical data: https://whimsy-test.apache.org/board/missing-reports For this month: Initial reminders were sent Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:01:36 +0000 Final reminders were sent Sat, 13 Feb 2016 04:27:17 +0000 There was a problem in prior months where getting the chairs email addresses from LDAP would fail; Sebb and Sam addressed the LDAP reliability problems, and Brett changed the address used for chairs to the $email@example.com address, avoiding the need for LDAP entirely. This problem is thought to be solved. Reminders are still only being sent to PMCs, i.e, not to executive officers and additional officers. They are also still being sent via a web interface instead of a cron job. These would be excellent tasks for somebody wishing to get more involved in the Whimsy project :-). A draft script for sending reminders can be found at http://s.apache.org/GZD. Deployment info is at https://github.com/apache/whimsy/blob/master/DEPLOYMENT.md B. Synapse. What happened and relationship with https://github.com/wso2/wso2-synapse and what we need to (possibly) watch out for. There was a prior discussion of this matter on the trademarks list. That discussion seemed to die off after this post: http://s.apache.org/cUl C. Updating VP Infrastructure Role After reviewing as many opinions and proposals as possible I have come to the conclusion that none of the options for moving the VP Infra responsibilities to a third party can be considered "small reversible steps". Furthermore, contrary to my initial recommendation to the board I am not convinced that any of the outsourcing options currently available are optimal for the foundation. I remain convinced that, at some point in the future, our infrastructure operations will require a full time management role. However, I do not think that time is now. Below I outline the current VP Infra job description (drawn up in consultation with David as VP Infra and most of the infrastructure staff). I have classified each task as either STAFF, VP or PRESIDENT to indicate where I propose each should land. This results in splitting the current VP role three ways: paid STAFF (and where possible contractors), PRESIDENT and VP (who remains a volunteer VP Infrastructure). Items marked VP/STAFF are expected to require significant oversight from the VP but can be delegated to STAFF. The intention is to split the role into "doing" (STAFF), "planning" (VP) and "HR" (PRESIDENT). Note, it is expected that the majority of the PRESIDENT responsibilities can be outsourced to a support organization though no negotiations have taken place at this time. * Set and manage annual infra budgets [VP/STAFF] * Approve infra purchasing decisions, including contract negotiation and renewal with suppliers [VP/STAFF] * Set medium- to long-term strategy for ASF Infra services in response to community demands (Critical, Core and Standard services) [VP] * Implement the defined strategy for ASF Infra (Critical, Core and Standard services [STAFF] * Define SLA targets [VP] * Track against SLA targets and report at https://status.apache.org/sla [STAFF] * Allocate resources (people's time) to ensure tickets are dealt with in a timely way in addition to completing assigned project word [STAFF] * Balance job assignments and project schedules to ensure the necessary work is completed while fun new stuff is progressed [STAFF] * Ensure projects are either provided with everything they need as a service, or (wherever possible) are provided compute resources to self-host [STAFF] * Encourage collaboration between projects who are self-managing the same/similar services [VP/STAFF] * Set or advise on appropriate ASF policy as requested [VP] * Monitor project adherence to appropriate ASF policies (e.g. release management, version control, service use), addressing issues of concern and escalating to the appropriate officer wherever necessary [STAFF] * Be the voice of the community within infra operations [VP] * Be the voice of the infra team for the ASF President and thus the Board and our Members (e.g. board reports) [VP] * Manage infra staff with respect to performance and work environment [PRESIDENT] * Negotiate contract renewals with infra contractors/staff [PRESIDENT] * Recruit infra staff as needed [PRESIDENT] After initial discussion in this board meeting I will take this proposal with appropriate modifications to the board@ list for fine tuning. At this point the search of a replacement VP and expansion of Staff duties can be commenced. Re: A. Late/missing board reports @Brett: Should we add another reminder to tardy projects the Monday before the meeting? Re: B. Synapse issue Jim: there has been a lot of contention between Axis and Synapse and it doesn't seem to be resolved in a good way Sam: there is a significant trademark issue with wso2-synapse; they have forked the project and taken our trademark and the fork does not even implement the same API Jim: I'm expecting to hear from WSO2 that since synapse has retired we want to take the trademark Shane: how are the company and project working together? Also, cloudstack has been forked; this situation needs to be investigated Re: C. VP Infra plan Sam: Overall, good work; perhaps change the set strategy and define SLA to ratify strategy and SLA instead? Ross: good change. Brett: looks like more responsibility for staff; could we bring up someone from infra for leadership role? Ross: with current structure it might be risky to promote an existing infra contractor; the best option for outsourcing would probably cost an extra $100K per year; the good news is that we are in a healthy situation with regard to cost Brett: we should be sensitive to the effect on staff Henri: job description-wise; I would expect to see a ‘travel required’ or not Ross: I will add this to the job requirements Shane: I would like to see us put as much as possible on public web site to get feedback from stakeholders and show other organizations "how we do things here" Ross: the meeting minutes are public Shane: but people outside the board meeting attendees won’t see how we handled this issue Ross: I’m focused on getting it done, not necessarily publishing it; feel free to take this discussion to a different venue David: good for Ross to take on some personnel management tasks interim; there is lots of menial work to do but needs to line up with long term goals; I'm looking forward to seeing who gets recruited for the new role Ross: "self elected" senior team member caused problems in the past; what we are looking for is more like a "project lead" than a manager for keeping projects on track; I'll take this forward with more discussion on board@
A. Discuss options for Infrastructure management. With the imminent retirement of the current VP Infrastructure we need to decide how to proceed in the near future. The easiest path is to simply replace David with a new volunteer VP. However, as discussed in the past this course of action is not considered sustainable due to the heavy workload. Other options previously considered include: * Employ a full time infrastructure manager * Employ a full time Executive Director (infra management + additional duties) * Outsource all infra services to a third party provider - not-for-profit - for profit * Outsource critical infra services to a third party provider whilst keeping non-critical services in-house and volunteer managed * Creating a separate company to manage our infra services This discussion item is intended to allow us to: a) Refresh our memories of previous findings for each of the above options b) Identify any other options that should be explored c) Agree to rule out some of the above options d) Provide a preliminary recommendation from the Presidents office e) Agree on a time frame in which the board will receive a final recommendation from the Presidents office, and subsequently seek to approve an action A. Discuss options for Infrastructure management. With the imminent retirement of the current VP Infrastructure we need to decide how to proceed in the near future. The easiest path is to simply replace David with a new volunteer VP. However, as discussed in the past this course of action is not considered sustainable due to the heavy workload. Other options previously considered include: * Employ a full time infrastructure manager * Employ a full time Executive Director (infra management + additional duties) * Outsource all infra services to a third party provider - not-for-profit - for profit * Outsource critical infra services to a third party provider whilst keeping non-critical services in-house and volunteer managed * Creating a separate company to manage our infra services This discussion item is intended to allow us to: a) Refresh our memories of previous findings for each of the above options b) Identify any other options that should be explored c) Agree to rule out some of the above options d) Provide a preliminary recommendation from the Presidents office e) Agree on a time frame in which the board will receive a final recommendation from the Presidents office, and subsequently seek to approve an action Ross: we need to make a timely decision on the replacement of our current VP, infrastructure. Bertrand: at some point we will probably need a full time operations manager. Ross: maybe at some time but not now. Brett: could the existing contractors handle the extra work? Ross: management of the contractors needs a different person in the role. Rich: the job is easily over 20 hours per week. Chris: this is potentially a high-burnout job. Shane: even if we use a third party service, we still need to manage them. Ross: communication with PMCs is still needed Jim: we need a job description to see what all is required and to see whether some duties might be changed to make it less burnout-prone @Ross: create a job description Ross: we are investigating outsourcing with a few third parties, including Virtual, and creating our own corporation. Ross: looks like we need both inside VP, Infrastructure to liaise with PMCs, and outsource infra services. Time frame: one month! @Ross: Prepare a plan to transition infra
A. Discuss whether or not incoming podlings and direct to TLP projects may consider having canonical repository outside of ASF infrastructure. B. Very much related to the previous discussion item, Sam would like to propose, as an experiment, that the Whimsy PMC be permitted to propose and explore with the Infrastructure team to have bidirectional flows with GitHub, with the following conditions to be in place for the duration of the experiment: 1) The infrastructure team has in place "pushevent" GitHub hooks that will notify the committee (via the commits@ mailing list) of all such events. Included in these emails will be an identification of the "pusher". This mailing list will continue to be archived, and serve as a push log. 2) Ability to "push" to either repository will be limited to ASF members. 3) Pull requests will only be accepted for individuals with an ICLA on file. Sam believes that the above is more than sufficient to ensure that we can identify an appropriate ICLA to cover all commits. Additionally, he notes that there are no known (or expected) downstream consumers of Whimsy. He further notes that majority of Whimsy PMC is expected to attend this board meeting. Sam's summary, in the hopes that this will focus discussion: Jim and Sam generally agree on what data must be captured for provenance reasons. Greg feels less is required, and Roy even less. Greg proposes repository immutability as a mechanism for implementing this requirement, and Jim agrees. Bertrand notes that this is an implementation detail. While clearly a viable choice (and workable for many, including all projects that have chosen SVN), imposing this on all projects (particularly Git ones) is something that David and Sam feel is as workable as the 18th amendment to the US Constitution (Prohibition). Greg proposes formalizing the requirement in the form of a board resolution. While Sam feels that it is time to take action, he is ambivalent about doing so in that form; despite this, Sam has proposed an alternate form of Greg's resolution that retains all the requirements but omits the implementation. Roy feels that both resolutions should be tossed in favor of providing a set of directions. What Sam would prefer is to green-light experiments (small, reversible steps) which will give us more experience and data. Draft resolutions (an an accompanying FAQ for the second one) can be found at: http://s.apache.org/ZWZ Discussion on 8A. Canonical repositories outside ASF infrastructure Greg is opposed to allowing canonical repositories outside ASF Chris offers that provenance is the major issue regardless of where the code is stored Brett thinks that "canonical" needs to be defined or we need to use another word to describe the intent; even though initial pushes are somewhere else, ASF needs to know the source of all changes Sam notes that "repositories outside ASF infrastructure" is already the practice, apparently in disregard for policy Jim thinks that svn is canonical but github reflects reality Sam states that projects are building releases outside asf and then putting stuff back into asf svn and changing history, making the tracking of changes difficult Shane thinks that we need to make a resolution to fix this Greg is not ready to vote on a resolution Chris agrees we are not ready to vote today Jim compares this situation to using LGPL; we need to take action where practice conflicts with policy; the fact that projects are doing it is not a change to policy; they are ignoring policy. But how to address it: make it clear what the policy is, and communicate to PMCs. Chris agrees with Jim; folks are clear on LGPL because it’s well communicated but there is no clear guidance on use of github; although we’ve made some guidance on github; pmcs are not willfully violating policy Jim is concerned when the use of github puts us at risk Chris states that we’re not trying to solve the problem for expert users, but for incoming users (and new PMCs) that don't necessarily know the policy David thinks that PMCs understand the policy but think it’s obsolete because of github; and by the way, github plans to deprecate some features that we depend on to implement our policy Jim says that is's hard to grok distributed (github) version control driving policy decisions. We should focus on canonical repository; policy cannot be obsolete just because of new technology David says the policy as written refers only to svn; there is no distributed vc system mentioned Brett proposes to continue discussion on board list and perhaps consider a resolution for next month once there has been sufficient discussion of the issue and proposed solution David observes that infra needs more guidance on how to proceed with git Ross agrees on the need to resolve current infra git situation Action item Ross to focus a new board thread on resolving current infra git situation Discussion on 8B Proposal for Whimsy PMC to explore ways of using git and svn Sam would like to do more thinking and exploring how to use git and svn together Ross agrees if we change the discussion to “limited experiment” Chris supports the "limited experiment" Jim supports the "limited experiment" Rich is concerned that other PMCs might think “why not our project too” but “limited” will help defuse this issue David supports the experiment; infra needs real feedback real soon Sam proposes to put whimsy on a monthly schedule while the experiment runs and will give Ross information for the report Brett confirms that the sense of the board is to let the Whimsy limited experiment begin
A. Discuss preventive and punitive actions to take against current member abusing mailing list privileges. B. Discuss revisiting the ASF bylaws to determine whether or not the 2008 interpretation of the requirements of the phrase "affirmative vote of a two-thirds majority of the members of the corporation" was correct, and/or whether any adjustment of the bylaws is in order. http://s.apache.org/dsG - see 12:07:26, 12:09:50, and 12:10:03 PM. @Jim work with counsel to review the bylaws and propose changes (if necessary) to clarify how to apply "two-thirds majority" when counting votes.
Use of Apache Trademarks in marketing materials for non-Apache products potentially being blocked by our lack of registration in geographic regions. There is an organization that has received cease-and-desist in another country for marketing materials that reference Apache projects. The company that has issued the cease-and-desist has registered Apache trademarks in that country. The organization is a significant sponsor of Apache. Long term, if they cannot market their association with Apache, Apache may get less support. Ross: "If you market your product without mentioning Apache, you are not affected by this issue." Shane: "You should be able to mention Apache in your advertising. Apache should attempt to protect our marks, especially in countries that have a first-to-file trademark law." @Ross @Shane discuss how to move this issue forward
Executive session entered at 11:33 AM. The Board unanimously agreed to require moderation of one ASF Member's emails to internal lists for a period of 90 days, due to repeated violation of the Foundation’s Code of Conduct. Executive officer appointments: Chairman Brett Porter Vice Chairman Greg Stein President Ross Gardler Executive Vice President Rich Bowen Treasurer Chris Mattman Assistant Treasurers Kevin A. McGrail and Jan Iversen Secretary Craig L Russell Assistant Secretary not filled at this time Executive session exited at 12:04 PM.
Greg will take responsibility for tracking action items from board meetings. Executive Officer appointments will be postponed until the next board meeting.
BUDGET Here is the budget I propose the outgoing board recommends to the incoming board for vote in April: Total income: 897,750 (up $750 from FY15 budget) ======= Infrastructure: 593,500 (down from $776,216 in FY15 budget) Programme expenses: 7,500 (up from $6000 in FY15 budget) Publicity: 124,000 (no change) Brand Management: 39,250 (down from $75,375 in FY15) Conference support: 7,500 (down from $12,500 in FY15) TAC: 45,000 (down from $50,000 in FY15) Treasury Services: 49,200 (no change) General& Admin: 115,550 (up from 113,807 in 2015) =================== ======= Total Expense: 981,000 ======= Net Income: -83,250 Shane: Any time a PMC requests registering their trademarks in the U.S. the registration will be approved. But if there are extraordinary legal or filing costs, the PMC will need to justify it. Ross: The key point is that the PMCs take the lead to register the marks.
Mark: Trademarks are a valuable asset for ASF. Trademark rules vary by country. Virtually all countries protect rights only through registration. Many unsavory people register other peoples' trademarks as a business. Risks are most often on ASF users, not ASF per se. As a practical matter, projects need to select brands that are available. Open source has "won the war" and is now ubiquitous. Now there are lawsuits based on GPL interpretation by people who are just trying to make money from the legal process, not community policing as we have seen in the past. Jim: Need to balance the cost versus benefit of registration. Shane: Looks like the "sweet spot" of registration is somewhat more than we are doing now. But consider that a third party has registered our Hadoop trademark in China. This is not a direct legal risk to Apache, although it could well prevent us from using the Hadoop name in China. Similarly, it may hurt downstream users relying on the Hadoop ecosystem, and in the long run it likely will hurt Apache Hadoop if the project loses support and/or future contributions from those users. Jim: Once a trademark is registered, we are then required to police it more vigorously. Mark: ASF is required to police brands regardless of registration (or not). If ASF doesn't have the money, users may well contribute to registration costs. Ross: Users are represented by PMCs. We need to make sure that PMCs step up, with foundation support.
Looks like March 24-26 would be a good time for the meeting.
Greg: discuss Kevin's proposal to contract services to third party Ross: possible down side: knowledge of how infrastructure works would transfer outside foundation David: would make it difficult to move away from third party in future don't know how much it would cost so can't estimate cost effectiveness might affect volunteers if third party would be responsible for performance of volunteers Kevin: has experience with combination paid staff/volunteer bigger issue: don't want to run afoul of labor laws Ross: two kinds of infra: core and other; perhaps outsource only core preparation underway to clean up SLAs for contractors Greg: good direction Ross: more discussion with Kevin will follow Greg: concerned about legal contractor status Kevin: foundation has outgrown infra as was set up years ago Ross: need to continue this discussion Tom: Virtual can also provide some services Action: Greg to coordinate response.
Executive officer appointments: The current slate of executive officers continues until such time as a change is needed.
* Directed sponsorship Ross reviewed a small number of concerns with directed sponsorship: accounting overhead; somewhat less of an issue assuming we contract out some accounting tasks neutrality of PMC; mitigated if the PMC is very diverse and sponsors similarly diverse Ross mentioned that there are no specific proposals at the moment Ross proposed thinking about these four categories of items that could use directed sponsors: 1. Items that don't cost much and are broadly applicable to many projects 2. Items that don't cost much but apply to only a few projects 3. Items that have high cost and apply to only a few projects directed sponsorships would mostly apply here would need to be managed closely by pmc 4. Items that have high cost and are broadly applicable to many projects Ross suggested his thinking for category 4 above: Perhaps we should look at outside organizations to support some of these, e.g. Linux Foundation Shane: We should provide higher level of services for our projects, using either inside or outside funding We can do this more easily with pmcs that know what they need Roy: we're ahead of ourselves with regard to accounting overhead issues since we do not yet have help Don't see a need to break out into four categories Prefer to think about categories: 1. pmc can do by themselves; 2. pmc needs help with e.g. publicity If need is identified, projects could identify people to work directly with marketing/publicity Ross: No problem with this approach for marketing/publicity The bigger issue is with infrastructure; maintaining different systems for many projects Infrastructure is not set up to provide much more than what they currently do Roy: Running infra at this level would need major increase in budget and support system Chris: Is the open office special fund relevant? The project has some money earmarked for travel assistance Ross: This was a special case; OO project had this money before joining apache No additional funding is being accepted but can only spend based on the original intent of the donation Ross: I will continue to work with cloudstack on concrete proposals for infrastructure and marketing I will put together a broader plan for identifying ASF wide policies for board approval These policies will be informed by the ongoing discussions in various locations of the ASF Roy: If pmc really wants to market they can set up groups inside the project As long as pmc is deciding what to work on, they have the ability to do it Also, projects can ask for additional resources in marketing Ross: Prospective sponsors have asked for accountability for donations Chip: The Cloudstack project is looking for diversity of sponsors to help with infrastructure and marketing
A. Select a date for the Annual Members Meeting What availability do other directors and executive officers have? Last week in May would be one year since the last meeting. Ross prefers *not* the first week of June. No holidays are in conflict from Tuesday through Thursday of prospective weeks. May 27 through May 29 is the tentative date.
The budget needs to be updated to include estimated trademark registration fees. Roy: Is trademark registration really necessary? Shane: In many cases of policing our trademarks, it's a lot easier to get potential infringing uses resolved if the trademarks are registered. Roy: We would need to make sure that the names actually are able to be registered. Shane: Brand awareness is an important part of community development. Roy: We can address new registrations without proactively registering all of our existing marks. There are a few marks that may be worthwhile but not a large number. Doug: Registering important marks will save a lot of trouble in the future. Roy: Estimates may be low for costs of registration, considering challenges brought by commercial interests. Shane: The plan is to ask PMCs whether they want their marks registered. If there are many objections, we would need to make a decision whether to change the name. The discussion will continue on the board mail list.
A. Status of audit Jim volunteered to help if needed. B. Status of Email to PMCs re: TCK availability (ASF policy) Sam will work on this. C. Special meeting for member elections In some years a special meeting has been called, primarily to allow for the election of new members more than once a year. November marks six months since the annual meeting, so a suitable time to hold a mid-year meeting would be mid-December, or mid-January. We have not held one since January 2011. There are pros and cons. On the upside, it allows new members to be elected sooner, and may reduce the volume of voting required at the annual meeting. However, it does require some time and effort from our volunteer members, and particularly the executive officers. I'm interested in whether the Board feels this would be valuable to conduct this year, and if so what their availability is for those timeframes. Discussion: Most of the people on the member watch list have been elected. Time is getting short to plan a meeting to avoid the holidays. Suggest asking members@ for guidance.
A. Revisit officer appointments The board entered Executive Session 11:45 to discuss officer appointments The board exited Executive Session 12:57 The board made the following appointments: Chairman of the board: Brett Porter Vice Chairman: Greg Stein President: Ross Gardler Executive Vice President: Rich Bowen Secretary: Craig L Russell Assistant Secretary: James Carman Treasurer: Chris Mattmann Assistant Treasurer: Sam Ruby
Greg to send out a general note to cover missing information (such as dates of last release and dates of last change to PMC composition) in reports. Hadrian asked for a clarification on what information needs to be generated or produced for an audit. The board directed Hadrian to work with Chris and Jim, and suggested that we make available whatever records we have to the auditor that he selects.
Umbrella projects have been problematic in the past and the board wants to ensure that projects are aware of the dangers. AI Ross: prepare and review with the board a memo to PMCs with the board's concerns.
A. Clarify the board's position on emeritus PMC members: are PMCs expected to ask the board to remove them from PMCs, or do they formally stay on the PMC and are just considered emeritus by their community.
A. Special Members Meeting [Doug] Should we have a special members meeting soon, to elect new members? We held our last annual meeting in May. Arguably we should have had a special meeting this month, six months later. We could try to have one next month, in December, but with holidays that would be difficult. So the next practical time is probably January, just four months before the nominal time of our next annual meeting. Given this, my instinct is to not have a special meeting this year and aim to have our annual meeting again in May. How do others feel? The main reason for a mid-year meeting is to elect new members. There have not been many new member nominations, so the consensus is that we should cancel the mid-year meeting. B. [Greg] After seeing Hadoop (finally!) combine their committer lists, I would like to have the Board make a recommendation that PMCs should never have partitions in the commit lists for code under their purview. Each community/PMC member is responsible for all that code, so why should any partitions exist, denying a member the ability to act? The board can strongly recommend this as best practice. Incubator is one exception, although the incubator seemed to be moving in the direction of a single incubator commit privilege. Labs is another possible exception. @Greg: prepare a draft memo to PMCs regarding project partitioning.
a. Drafting resolution(s) to formally move various officers under the President rather than reporting to the board. Will continue to discuss on the board mailing list.
A. Set deadline for receipt of OSI Affiliate Agreement. Apache became an affiliate of OSI in 2011 with the expectation that the role of affiliate would be more clearly defined. Since then, there has been very little progress on defining the roles. At minimum, affiliates need to be involved, and ideally approve, public policy positions of OSI. There can be advantages to Apache from an affiliation with OSI. For example, OSI can make statements regarding public policy that Apache would endorse, but as a 501(c)(3) charity, cannot. Once the formal affiliate role is defined, Apache should appoint a VP, OSI to manage the relationship. In order to move the affiliate process along, we should make a request to OSI to formalize the affiliate program by the face-to-face meeting of OSI in November. B. Further discussion on travel budgeting. Ref: Larry Rosen's suggestion to make this a President's function. This is a good idea. Jim and Ross agreed to draft a policy for approval by the board. Interim, requests for travel should be sent to president@ for approval. Jim and Ross will draft the policy for travel. C. Executive Director (ED) Roy: We need to manage contractors (infra, press, apachecon); we might consider hiring an ED. Many, possibly most, foundations delegate running the foundation to an ED. The ED sets policy and implements the policy with minimal direction from the board. Apache is on the other end of the continuum, with the board very involved in setting policy, and volunteers taking responsibility for running operations. Jim, as President, would like to take more responsibility, such as: manage books to pass an audit; manage contractors; manage fundraising; manage contractors in different countries. Greg would want ED to be a member to avoid not understanding how Apache works. Consider growth; once we have a 6th contractor, we should consider an ED. Basically the foundation runs smoothly day-to-day, but what happens with unusual situations that come up? Greg suggests we cannot delegate more to Jim because he isn't paid. Perhaps an ED could be better at managing people as a paid employee. Bertrand offers that looking at what we envision the ED doing, it seems like a COO or Director of Operations title would be more appropriate. Sam doesn't see the problem; we have plenty of member/volunteers to cover the tasks that need to be done. In future, if we run out of bandwidth, we can reconsider. If the board agrees to create an ED position in future, we would probably look at someone who executes the strategy set by the board and members, not at someone who sets the direction of the foundation, as an ED might be expected to do. Meanwhile, we will create an operations@ mail list to discuss non-project items needing President attention or coordination, and make President responsible for concom, press, infra, fundraising, bookkeeping, trademark, travel assistance board reports. This brings the President's role closer to an ED/COO role, and should help delegate some or all of our operations management tasks to a hired ED should the need arise. D. Infra The board would like infra to make it easier for new committers to understand how it works and to set expectations, e.g. setup for podlings; setup for graduation; how to request service (JIRA ticket, IRC, email to infra, infra-private, infra-dev?) Sam's preference is for JIRA for most items that aren't already automated The board meeting was recessed at 12:05 and reconvened at 12:53. Afternoon Guests Present: Kevin A. McGrail E. ApacheCon As discussed on concom, the goal is to get as many Apache committers to attend as possible, with a financial exposure of 20,000 - 30,000 EUR. SAP requested a focus on getting university student attendance. The first sponsor is lined up, with other potential sponsors expressing interest. There are variable costs of approximately 220 euro per head, for meeting space and food. No evening events are currently organized, but more sponsors == more events. The venue can handle 450 but local hotels are limited to 250 Thus far, 8 committers have bought tickets. It looks like with 150 subsidized tickets, Apache's exposure is 25,000 euro assuming that no tickets are sold at full price and we get no sponsors. Should concom be disbanded? At least wait until ApacheCon NA is done. Prepare an omnibus resolution for September board meeting changing status of PMC's identified above as President's committees. F. Apache OpenOffice podling needs some guidance The board feels that the AOO PPMC is not yet operating as a PMC should. The concerns are primarily with the ability of the PPMC to self-police its members' behavior on-list. Ross will draft a note to ooo-private with board's concerns. AOO has requested releasing binaries as official Apache releases. Flex has also requested signed binaries. Roy suggests: (P)PMC approves a source release. Infra then can build and sign binary releases. The board may approve this if properly reviewed. Jim will send a message to committers@ regarding binaries signed by Apache. Sam will make committers@ archived publicly with a public URL for each message.
A. ApacheCon EU status Review the list of open issues and discuss whether any board action is needed. B. Audit Discuss whether we should fund an audit or a review this year. Hadrian has come forward with a few potential items to do this year. There is no strong requirement for an audit, but a review of procedures will help us decide whether we are doing things right and correct any deficient procedures. Jim: It is time to do an audit. We have never had a full review of the books, and it's a minor financial hit. Sam: Suggest a limit of $15,000 for an outside auditor to review the books. Doug: The board wants Hadrian to proceed with Jim (President) as the contact.
A. What terms would we find acceptable for renewing the Stand-Alone TCK Licence Agreement with Oracle America, Inc.? Daniel Kulp is discussing the contract renewal with Lance Andersen of Oracle Corp. One concern is the requirement to re-test on the current release of the TCK. Another concern is the requirement to continue to test on the TCK even if the project no longer implements the specification. Apparently, the existing TCKs that we already have can continue to be used for "maintenance" purposes. So it may not be urgent to sign the contract extension. Lance notes that many projects have not notified Oracle as to self-certification of passing the TCK. Daniel is willing to continue to be the contact with Oracle, and to serve as VP, TCK if necessary.
8a. The DC BarCamp has raised some questions around how sponsorship for small events is collected and bills paid. Discussion: Rather than having sponsors contribute to conferences, some sponsors were asked to contribute to ASF directly and then ASF covered some conference event costs. This appears to be a directed donation that in the past, was disallowed. Is this a valid approach for conferences? Roy: as long as it's an Apache event, this is appropriate. Prefer to have an "Apache person" specifically tasked with running the event. Greg: Tim Williams is running the event. He is an ASF Member. In future, makes sense to have an Apache person in charge. Roy: The Apache responsible person must be an officer or employee of the Foundation. Greg: Nick Burch as VP Concom should be responsible for handling this for future events. Provisional approval for accepting targeted donations for Concom for small Apache-sponsored events. Concom to propose a policy for approval by the board. Jim: will take responsibility to communicate with VP Concom.
a) Audit activities and plans? This was discussed during the review of the treasurer's report. b) Expectations regarding source code releases (see question in Incubator report). AI Roy: update the guidance for releases and communicate to all committers.
A. Appoint a new Director to fill the empty board seat Daniel Kulp was appointed to fill the empty board seat. B. Naming Noirin Plunkett as Assistant Treasurer. Sam would like to offload some of the workload. Tabled. C. Audit plans? Or plan for a plan? There is no legal requirement for annual audits based on ASF annual revenues. Usually the audit committee is chaired by the Treasurer. Audit done by a smaller accounting firm would be $10K; larger firms would charge $20k - $30K. Hadrian volunteered to start by looking at the books.
A. Treasurer position Sam is appointed to the Treasurer position, by Unanimous Vote of the directors present. The office of Assistant Treasurer is vacated, by Unanimous Vote of the directors present.
A. Apache Open Office Extensions site and SourceForge offer Discuss this (from Ross Gardler on board@) unless already done. The aoo pmc wants to arrange for hosting of ooo extensions now on the oo.o site. Extensions include templates and dictionaries, which are not necessarily licensed to Apache. Infra is willing to host a metadata site but not a download site, due to bandwidth issues. Sourceforge has volunteered to host a site, giving root access to authorized ppmc folks. Downloads from sourceforge have advertising, which pays for running the service. Apache.org domains should not have advertising on them. Advice from board: proceed with sourceforge; can host extensions on sourceforge.org domain; ok for non-apache download site to have advertising; continue to work on a long term solution. B. Termination of VP, JCP AI Jim: discuss with Geir, prepare a resolution for termination for February 2012. C. How is the calendar supposed to work? There is a Feb 9th item in the calendar. Is the EA tasked with sending out reminders? Jim and Melissa are working to add items to the calendar. The plan was for Melissa to manage the items on the calendar, not to remind folks. But Melissa can set up reminders on request. Should the calendar be publicly available? Not now, as there are private items included. If we want the calendar to be public, we will need to have a separate calendar. But the calendar is intended for the use of the board so it's not clear why the calendar should be public, except that's what Apache usually does. Access to the calendar is by secret url, that can be changed at will. Security by obscurity. Any member should be able to get the secret url on request to Melissa.
A. 990 tax disclosures for 2007-1010 On the members list, Bill Rowe notes that those are still missing from http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/ The Treasurer role should make sure that the IRS 990 forms are posted to the public web site. B. Annual report - where do your donations go? Are we planning to have such a report for 2011? Beyond any legal requirements, Apache's Annual Report should be useful as a marketing document. C. How do we improve invoicing and bill payment timeliness? We've had issues for months getting bills paid on time using the normal procedures, including an invoice being sent very late to get the ~$20k GSoC funds. Who can improve this? AI: Bertrand discuss with Sally how to get her invoices submitted in the appropriate place in svn.
Timeliness of reports remains an issue. Jim to request that board reports be submitted and entered into SVN one week earlier. Roy and Bertrand discussed the announcement by Adobe that they will be contributing Flex. This lead into a discussion as to whether or not the ASF has resources to assist with Incubation, and whether or not we should be more proactive board/member effort to ensure that incubating projects succeed. No actions were assigned.
A. Invitation for ASF to join OSI as Affiliate This discussion was deferred to the face-to-face meeting. B. Verify Daniel's payments are setup correctly for Nov 1 AI Jim: follow up with Geir and Noirin C. Discuss legal preparation for registration of Apache mark This discussion was deferred to the face-to-face meeting. D. Discuss executive summary in board reports (unless already clear from board@ list). Several board members are dissatisfied with the volume of material that they need to digest for each board meeting. Others are fine with the status quo but are willing to entertain changes. No changes were proposed nor agreed.
Should we use part of the Vancouver board meeting to reflect on our goals and strategies for foundation-level activities (public relations, trademarks management, outreach, finances etc.)? Should we plan for a face-to-face meeting within a short time after each annual board election? Perhaps use OSCON as a venue. We should start planning the board face-to-face in Vancouver. AI Doug: prepare the draft agenda.
A. Future uses of the openoffice.org domain and brand. In particular, what kinds of licenses will we allow to be hosted on this highly trafficed domain? (starting the discussion)
A. Do we require a nofollow attribute on links to external websites on our project's sites? We have a recommendation from Jim as PRC chair here: http://s.apache.org/prc_nofollow but no policy AFAIK. Shane and Serge are working on a proposal: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking.html Discussion will continue on the trademark mailing list. B. Should the Board hold a face-to-face meeting prior to ApacheCon? If so, when and where? Agreement to "pencil in" the week of September 28th in the LA area. Brett and Bertrand (as the Directors with the farthest to travel) to verify over the course of the next week that these dates are workable. C. Is it time to reassign credit cards? General consensus is that it is. AI: Sam to work with Wells Fargo to do all of the necessary deactivations, reactivations, reassignments, and requests for cards.
A. PMC Brand requirements followup and tracking. There was a general discussion about reporting requirements of projects with regard to branding. Board members need to review all project reports and it's a burden to review multiple paragraphs on each project. There must be a better way for Shane to track progress without burdening every board member. AI Shane: work on a proposal to track status B. Git @Apache: good progress has been made but should we make a decision about making it a first-class citizen? Might need budget for manpower and/or equipment. AI Jim: follow up with infra on git status
A. Sonatype's failure to publicly acknowledge Maven trademark (Doug)
New VP Apache Infrastructure Discussion as to what this role should be. Front line interaction with vendors? Oversight and approval? Part time? Full time? The discussion will continue on the infrastructure mail lists. Date for May Meeting: 18 or 25 May? Doug will resolve this offline. Did we announce our new members already? Blog post? There is a draft blog announcing new members but it's not published. AI Bertrand: work with Sally to publish the blog.
A. Trademark protection strategies (executive session @ end of meeting)
A. Define organizational ownership of trademark policy. It appears we are getting closer to consensus that the VP, Trademarks is responsible for setting policy and the PMC's are responsible for implementing said policy. Some details remain to be discussed.
A. Define organizational ownership of trademark policy. Several officers appear to have differing opinions of who sets definitive trademark policy for the ASF. The main issue for now is whether the VP, Trademarks or individual PMC's are responsible for trademark policy and enforcement. The discussion was deferred until the next meeting.
A. Board expectations of PMCs managing their own brands and marks. This item was tabled for the next meeting.
A. Brand Management budget for graphic designer to improve our image. There are two issues: First, our main graphic mark, the feather, needs major work to make it suitable for many purposes: web, print materials, and branded items. Second, the new cms-based web site is live but needs continued attention. Roy suggests that a competition is usually the approach for an open source project to get graphic design help. Shane agreed to plan and run a competition but if not successful would like to pay for the services of a graphic talent.
A. Maven trademark issues Jim did attempt to call Wayne on Tuesday... will try again with Wayne's cell phone. Shane recapped the previous conversation in which Sonatype's CMO requested details supporting the assertion that the ASF truly owned the mark, and they were provided. Shane emphasized how important it is that the PMCs are involved in this discussion. Jim mentioned that Maven is not the only PMC in which we are working through these issues. Brian indicated that this is a legacy issue where the guidelines in the past were not as clear as they are now. Philip indicated that the new CMS will enable us to enforce consistent trademark usage in headers and footers across the entire site. B. Java 7 vote responses Doug suggested that any press release include information which identify what actions Oracle could take to get us to stay. Geir indicated that the condition is a unencumbered TCK for Java 6. Geir indicated that he would produce a Q&A. Bertrand suggested that now that we just got elected in, it would be a good time for a blog post which thanks people for their support and uses the opportunity to lobby the new and remaining JCP SE/EE Executive Committee members to vote against the umbrella JSR for Java 7 unless it comes with JCK terms that we can live with. Geir to draft a call to action and revisit the exiting FAQ by Thursday, with the plan to post on Monday. C. Java-related issue (Sam) [executive session]
A. Public statement about Harmony IBM has announced that it is reducing its involvement in Apache Harmony in favor of increasing its involvement in OpenJDK. The board agreed that this is a serious setback for the project but the future of the project is in the hands of the Harmony PMC, which has the full support of the board regardless of what direction the PMC wants to take. B. Public statement about Oracle's decision on the TCK's FOU The board discussed ASF's response to the crisis in the JCP now that Oracle has made it clear that it is prepared to negotiate a JCK license for the Apache Harmony project only if it includes a Field Of Use restriction. Discussions among the members as to the foundation's response to this have surfaced myriad possible responses, from abandoning the Harmony project, quitting the JCP, quitting Apache's JCP Executive Committee seat, abandoning existing Apache Java projects, to suing Oracle. The effects on other Apache projects have also been called into question. The board reiterated its commitment to all Apache Java projects that implement Java specifications. There is nothing being considered that would require any Apache project to stop what it is doing based on the JCP crisis. Projects that currently license TCKs will continue to do so. If maintenance leads for JSRs propose to change the terms of license for existing TCKs then Apache will vigorously lobby against these changes. New projects will continue to be considered on their merits and on the appropriateness of the proposed licenses. In a word, existing projects are not in any danger.
The board went into executive session for 10 minutes. Regarding the Microsoft petition for certiorari that has been circulating on the internet: As Vice President, Legal Affairs, Sam has the authority to speak for the foundation. It is likely that he will represent the ASF to agree to support Microsoft in the petition.
A. Needs, outlook, and plans for legal resources in general. There is a need for legal resources for such items as contract review (e.g. employment, services), intellectual property issues, and corporate filings. There is no consensus among the board that there is a need for a General Counsel at this time. B. Move the time slot for the board meetings, either just for the Sept 22nd meeting, or as a permanent change. Third Wednesday of each calendar at noon Pacific will be changed to 10:00 Pacific (not GMT as daylight savings is not a GMT concept) for all board meetings until changed. C. Discuss director thoughts on when & how the ASF should take public positions on advocacy items (patents, licenses, whatever) Once Apache takes an extreme public position, it's very difficult to change as time goes on. Apache as an organization doesn't generally advocate for specific behavior with regard to software development, but does exhibit a well-organized and well-justified model for this behavior. With regard to policy statements, e.g. on software patents, patent lawsuits, licenses; where there is board consensus on important issues it is appropriate to take public advocacy positions. The board does not see any such issues at present. With regard to defense of Apache policies and practices, the board will actively defend Apache policies and practices, and the people who implement them. D. How can we balance the budget while preparing to approve EA expenses. Executive Assistant position is out for bid although it is not in the current budget. Once a suitable candidate is approved, the budget will be amended to include the cost. In any event, the budget should be updated mid-year (November).
A. Executive Officer appointments process and timeline. Shane suggests we define the process at July meeting; work on board@ to find any potential candidates/discuss issues; vote on appointments at August meeting. Candidates identified to date: 1. Chairman: Jim Jagielski Sam Ruby 2. President: Jim Jagielski Sam Ruby 3. Secretary: Craig L Russell 4. Asst. Secretary: Sam Ruby 5. Treasurer: Geir Magnusson, Jr. 6. Asst Treasurer: ??? 7. Executive Vice President: Greg Stein Jim to split to a separate slate of candidates into a separate file and notify members, encouraging members to volunteer for any slot with the exception of Chair. B. Hiring EA - discuss and appoint new Admin search chair to drive Unless the new board chooses to not hire an EA, we need to appoint someone to drive the process (as Sander is not able currently). Consensus is that EA need not be a member or committer. Most don't see this as important, Henri suggests that it might actually be better to hire from a non-committer. Jim to start the process of hiring an EA based on the job description that Sander produced. C. Appointing a General Counsel / Organizing Legal Affairs To better utilize our pro bono counsel time, there is a suggestion to appoint a General Counsel to better manage legal questions. The suggestion is that Larry Rosen be appointed, and he has already indicated that he would be most willing to accept. Some concern about establishing a General Counsel, significantly less concern about having Larry simply replace VP, Legal Affairs roles. Larry would like to see VP, Legal Affairs continue. What Larry wants to stop is people going to different lawyers and getting different answers. What the board wants is to have a VP Legal Affairs setting policy, and the General Counsel be tasked with implementing and coordinating the execution of those policies. D. New Monthly Board Meeting time Start time for meeting OK for everyone? We could move it anywhere from zero to three hours earlier in the day. Survey of directors normal time zones: +1 CET - CH - Bertrand Delacretaz +1 CET - CH - Noirin Shirley -5 EST - US MA - Shane Curcuru -5 EST - US MD - Jim Jagielski -5 EST - US NC - Sam Ruby -5 EST - US VA - Greg Stein -8 PST - US CA - Doug Cutting -8 PST - US CA - Roy Fielding -8 PST - US WA - Henri Yandell -5 EST - US MD Philip M. Gollucci Discussion deferred to board@. E. Planning Potential F2F Board meeting If we want to repeat last year's great F2F, when/where? F2F: rough plan, early September in Boston, will continue discussion on with a Doodle poll. Officers will be allowed to attend, but will are unlikely to get any travel assistance. New meeting time item tabled.
Shane noted that the brand management needs to address the issue of projects, such as subversion, which come to the ASF with pre-existing marks. The board will collectively monitor the release plans for Forrest.
A. Review Apache Project Branding Guidelines http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs Doug: I applaud your efforts. I think the draft looks good. As far as enforcing and rollout: perhaps we can ask each project to report (as a part of their normal reporting cycle) as to whether or not they are conforming to the policy. Brett: I expect the most controversial part is the TM on the logos. Shane: If we take our trademarks seriously, we should have a TM on the logo. Shane: we are also revising the feather to include various formats and sizes, and will be requesting that each project migrate to any updated version as time permits in the future. Jim: my takeaway is that the board is behind the direction: continue on Roy: we have traditionally avoided lawsuits, and TM's make us look corporate. Overall, I'm not thrilled, but am willing to go along. Doug: the lack of TM's has caused confusion in the past, and a TM's will help us socialize this = = = B. www.eclipselabs.org is neat. can we get one? Eclipselabs is for third parties, seems to be a good idea. Greg to pursue it. The name will need to be changes so as to not conflict with the existing labs.apache.org. Something like contrib.apache.org. Longer term, the lack of support for git is an issue that would need to be worked. = = = C. What to do about Santuario. Santuario is in the process of writing up a resolution naming a new chair. Jim proposes that we give them one more month. Jim to follow up. = = = D. What to do about iBATIS. First question to be resolved: have they ever produced an Apache release, and is there anybody interested in continuing at the ASF. If there are releases which were not approved by the PMC, those links need to be removed. If there is a release, then the ASF certainly would retain the name, it not the ASF may consider abandoning further use. Doug to inquire on the public dev list. = = = E. Setting date for annual members meeting/board elections? Tentative date proposed: July 13th and 15th.
A. Setting date for annual members meeting/board elections?
A. Jim would like to re-introduce the idea of a paid EA. Tabled until a RFP is available to be discussed. Sander (and possibly Greg) to develop a report. Discussion should not wait until next meeting but rather occur on list as the budget is imminent.
* HALO contract (up for renewal end of February) * PayPal account access for Serge, possibly other transaction info, and hosted Quickbooks * This timeframe still OK for board meetings? General agreement on getting Serge access to PayPal data. Geir prefers svn for quickbooks. Serge indicated that hosted access was only a nice to have. Next board meeting will be two hours earlier.
A. Appropriate use of theapacheway.com Shane acquired the domain a year and a half ago, and started using it 2 months ago. Shane doesn't see this as an issue, but others have raised it as such. Roy: as long as you are using it for Apache stuff, there is no conflict at all, furthermore as an officer of the ASF you are authorized to publish official positions as you see fit. Justin is a bit more concerned about commercial site for selling swag.
A. Set a date/time for the next members meeting. Jim proposes Jan 2010. Deferred to the list. B. Discussion of having the ASF create a replacement for the JCP. Deferred to the list. C. Scheduling of officer appointments Agreed that scheduling officer appointments a few months after board elections is a guideline but not a hard requirement.
Justin informed the board that he has appointed Philip M. Gollucci to VP, Infrastructure, replacing Paul Querna. A. Restructuring the PRC? Jim indicated that he would like to discuss this one first. Shane would prefer to meet with the people involved at ApachCon and to be given an opportunity to present their proposal at the next board meeting in November. Jim would prefer to give some guidance so that the PRC doesn't produce recommendations that the board would not be predisposed to accept. Shane intends to present resolutions at the next board meeting to dissolve the PRC and to create new, smaller committees, and he believes that this will likely meet with the board's approval. Sander asked if we really need a committee, wouldn't an officer do? Noirin feels that such an approach would squelch discussion. Many (including Roy, Sander, Justin) felt that committees don't respond in a timely fashion, and this is necessary for matters such as PR. Doug argued that trademark approval and website presence are two distinct tasks, the former can be modeled after how the current Legal Affairs Committee approaches problems. Justin argued that trademark issues are somehow "softer" and more subjective than legal issues. Sam pointed out that legal policy issues are often very subjective. Greg asked whether reorganization would solve the problem. Sander indicated that historically, the overlap in personnel was nearly 100%. Sam stated that he didn't believe that reorganization will solve anything, the fundamental issue is personality issues. Geir suggested that Shane delegate. Greg and Roy indicated that board committees can't delegate. Jim and others discussed how it could work, with the VP of PRC having oversight. Justin was concerned that this created a new level of oversight. Greg feels that we have learned from the umbrella projects in the past. Jim and Sander felt that flowing the coordination of, e.g., sponsorship and communication, through the board wouldn't be timely. Justin indicated that delegating the creation of the budget would have addressed a number of the issues we had in the approval of the budget last go around and suggested that going forward that groups like the PRC propose initial drafts of budgets. Sander is particularly concerned about the time sensitivity of PR issues. Roy indicated that the way to solve this is to not have PR be done by a committee. Jim named an individual who would be excellent at this. Roy suggested that the board create the organization structure, and let Shane staff it. Shane felt that it would be more efficient if the people who staffed it provided input first. Doug suggested that the board should provide a first draft. Justin feels that the board already has the input it needs to make a decision. Shane noted that there are other items on the agenda, and suggested that we move on. Sander made it clear that this needs to be solved by the November meeting. Shane agreed to this deadline. B. Subversion contribution Greg asked if the board would be OK with PR prior to acceptance. Justin indicated that it was important as it would allow the ASF more control over the message. Doug and Geir felt uncomfortable with setting precedent. Sam asked if there was a general policy for granting such objections? Noirin feels uncomfortable with the board imposing this. Roy noted that this is an exception that might make sense in general for large, well known, and preexisting open source projects. Sam asked whether SpamAssassion could have fallen under such a criteria, and Greg, Justin, and Noirin concurred. The board agrees that the proposed contribution of Subversion to the ASF would be such a significant event, but leaves it to the Incubator to decide if a waiver is appropriate as the board does not want to interfere with the workings of the incubator. C. Budget Justin/Paul requested $18K to cover converting Gavin's sysadmin position from a part time to a full time position. Geir asked why this was a surprise, and Paul confirmed that this has ended up being a larger task than was originally anticipated. Greg asked what the year to year commitment would be. Essentially this makes the sysadmin personnel budget to be approximately $150K a year. Sander asked whether there will likely be another request in six months to a year for yet an additional half-person. Paul indicated that he didn't think so. Sander is concerned about burn-out. Greg asked whether this was an indication that we did not have the right people for the job, or whether the job is simply too big, and the general consensus was that the nature of the job requires this level of effort. D. Future of ApacheCon? Noirin asked what does the board want? Geir noted that Hadoop World was larger than ApacheCon. Roy felt that was weird as he felt that ApacheCon contained Hadoop, and therefore should draw more people. Others felt that event focus was a feature to some attendees. Noirin would like to see Concom running project-specific conferences like Hadoop World, and focused multi-project conferences (for example, "Lucene & Friends"), in conjunction with project communities. Noirin believes that ApacheCon does bring in both money and contributors. Noirin noted as an issue that PMCs don't know whether or not they need to get ConCom's approval when running events using ASF project names, so they don't. Justin indicated that he has a problem with third parties running conferences centered around Apache software. Doug sees this similar to third parties shipping our code, which the ASF not only allows but encourages, and therefore not a concern. Justin indicated that he felt that the Hadoop PMC was involved with Hadoop World based on the fact that a significant percentage of the Hadoop PMC members presented at Hadoop World. Justin reiterated displeasure with the notion of PMCs being involved in conferences concerning Apache software without involving ConCom. Noirin asked for an up or down vote: keep ApacheCon in the current form or can it? Straw poll: 3 to 3. Noirin rephrased the poll to see if the board supported the notion of a have a broad spectrum conference at all? Straw poll: 4 to 3. Doug asked if there was interest in running more focused conferences? Straw poll: 6 to 0. Roy feels that the ASF should not be in the business of producing conferences -- preferring the existing model where conference companies produce conferences and the ASF contracts with these companies. Justin notes that events creates confusion about sponsorships. Some companies prefer to sponsor the foundation, others prefer to sponsor individual events, some are OK with splitting. Jim suggested that the ASF should invest more of the ASF sponsorship money towards conferences organization, etc. Doug felt that was risky. Jim is sure that we can (and have before) easily find companies to help us produce very focused (1 or 2 ASF project related) conferences (eg: (Apache) Hadoop World), so that doesn't seem to be an issue. The main issue is what how to best support those ASF projects that lack a "sugar daddy" company (or companies) that will pick up the ball and do that kind of event. Does the ASF have any responsibility or desire to help *those* ASF projects? If so, then the only way he can see that happening is via us continuing an ApacheCon-like event for their benefit. Jim doubted that companies that produce conferences would continue to be interested in Apache-wide conferences. Roy noted that this solves the sponsorship issue -- e.g., there would be no confusion between contributing to Hadoop World vs the ASF. Justin continues to be concerned with third parties creating conferences around ASF software. Sander is concerned that if we don't have an ApacheCon, we will lose the benefit of cross-pollination. Geir asked if the cross-pollination is measurable? Noirin indicated that she has a lot of anecdotes. Geir asked if the ASF could do a summit or such instead of having talks, and Noirin asked how many people were planning on coming to the upcoming Apache retreat, and got a few non-committal answers; the conclusion being that structured conferences with prepared talks seem to be more effective for the ASF in terms of attracting a diverse set of participants. She also noted that broader focused events historically have attracted a greater percentage of female participation than more tightly focused events. E. Officer appointments This previously was deferred to December, but Greg made a proposal that the board set up the expectation at the next election that future boards will have a F2F each August, and would appoint Exec Officers in September. He further proposed that the current board plans to make officer appointments at the next board meeting in November, after issuing a call for officer nominations to members@. Jim agreed. I could not gauge the sentiment of the room as the group was in the process of preparing to adjourn, but I did not hear any objections to either proposal. F. Executive Director/Assistant? Deferred. G. Mission/Vision of ASF? Deferred.
PRC reorganization looks like it is converging on the mailing list. Originally, it was decided to table item 7E, but during discussion Geir suggested that the board simply vote on 7E. The conclusion was that it makes sense to replace the VP of PRC now independent of whether or not the PRC eventually (or even imminently) gets reorganized. Potential board meeting during ApacheCon (Wed, Thu afternoon?)... if this does happen, Sam notes that he will not be available to minute the meeting as he will be at the W3C face to face. Some concern over deviating from the tradition of board meetings being open to members, Roy clarified that that was not a requirement and should not stand in the way of getting things done. Some discussion about logistics of scheduling a board meeting, to minimize confusion if there is a need trying to round up all nine directors. Actual scheduling deferred to the F2F.
Location for the board get-together on 11/1 will be at Napa Valley, Doug to reconfirm availability of the location. Jim to arrange for travel from Oakland. General discussion about the Membership input about Board Members (outside of the Chairman) not being Officers. No consensus. Reappointment of Officers deferred to December (after the F2F). The board decided not to appoint new officers, and by general consent reaffirmed the current officers appointment through December.
Brett is fine with the current board meeting time, but would appreciate it being later. Greg will be moving to the US, and is OK with the time moving, and notes that we do have callers from Europe. Jim agrees with moving forward 2 hours (noon, West coast time). Greg suggests 6 hours (7pm east coast) Jim asked if anybody is opposed to a six hour push? Greg suggests a polling tool Jim would prefer picking a time now. Jim indicated that we will test out a 4 hour push The date of the next meeting will discussed on the mailing list. Greg requested that we settle on a date within a week or so. As to board meeting, Jim suggested Boston, Justin suggested October 10th and 11th; Roy indicated that he may have a conflict with those dates. Jim asked about the 17th and 18th. Roy indicated that he can't do anything after the 8th of October. Roy suggested ApacheCon, Brett and Jim agreed. Jim noted that having it at ApacheCon encourages directors to attend ApacheCon. Justin asked if we want to lock in the 31st in Oakland. Jim indicated that plans to start reporting on W3C activities next month. Both Sam and Jim plan to attend the TPAC in November.
A. Who will be at OSCON next week? Will be there: Justin, Greg, Henri, Paul, Sander. Geir may show up. B. Any interest in 'board' retreat? +1's from Shane, Greg, Justin. Greg suggests US Roy offers his conference room in Newport Beach Jim suggested September Discussion will continue on board@
Scheduling of next ASF Members Meeting: Suggested June 30/July 2; discussion will continue on board@.
A. Budget There was a discussion about someone managing the sponsors. A concern was raised by Geir on that. J. Aaron mentions we dropped the ball on keeping sponsors up to date, and following up with them. We lost sponsorship dollars in the past, which alone warrants doing this. It was remarked that skill-set between an executive assistant and someone managing sponsorship is not expected to overlap. Jim takes the action item to kick off budget discussion on list.
We noted that the NYTimes article on Hadoop does not contain the word "Apache". PRC to work with the PMC chair on how to deal with PR. Perhaps a Webinar is appropriate? Perhaps a web page of instructions as a first step?
Geir to follow up with HLShip concerning the removing of PMC members from the auth list for Tapestry apparently without any discussion on the PMC list. - - - Jim noted that the secretary assistant position contract is up for renewal, and indicated he had not had the opportunity yet to sync up with the SA on the current scope of work. Bill expressed concerns about the compensation rate, status of historical record scanning and oversight. Jim asked if the board believed the position should still be continued, and received no objection. Justin pointed out that a three month renewal would be sufficient while the scope of work is reevaluated in light of the new EA position. Bill further offered that if substantial historic archives remain to be scanned, that this might be outsourced to Office Max, Kinkos, etc to be completed in a short timeframe at reasonable cost. Justin pointed out that, based on the Treasurer boxes that he sent to Sam last year, some of those materials may be hard to outsource the bulk scanning of as they are all in varying paper sizes and formats. Jim stated his plan to contact that SA, reevaluate the scope of work and renegotiate a corresponding contract for a period which will allow for a one month overlap between the SA and EA. - - - We confirmed that until a budget is in place, Executive Officers may authorize expenses up to $5K without prior approval.
* ApacheCon contract/budget review (limited to 10 minutes) * Treasurer and tax filing situation * ApacheCon website, (too) strong dependency on Aaron ApacheCon budget does not include Halo. We expect the profit to be steady, but flat in the future given the economic climate. For the complexity this reduces in dealing with sponsors alone, this is worth. If we bring this in house, we might consider merging this with the person that we are already considering for keeping our books. Instead of asking Sponsors to target a certain part of their funds to the conference and a separate part to the Foundation, sponsorship rates would go up. The ApacheCon website is not on ASF hardware.
* Is there a further update to the complaint of encumbered code being checked into POI's repository? None noted.
We discussed whether there was a perceived or actual requirement to have an ASF member in each of our PMCs. While it is something we tend to look for, it is not by any means a hard requirement. If there is not an ASF member in a PMC, the board often looks for a member to volunteer to monitor the mailing lists. Another way to address this, strongly encouraged by the board, is for members to look at new PMCs as an opportunity to nominate new members. Jim will include words to this effect in the invitation to the next members meeting. Wrowe to close out contract with the executive assistant
* SpamAssassin is requesting that the current "intent for use" trademarks ("SPAMASSASSIN" and "POWERED BY SPAMASSASSIN") be filed as "actual use" trademarks. Larry Rosen has volunteered to do the necessary filing. The board approved the expense (expected to be less than $500).
What should official and published Board of Directors Meeting Minutes cover? Sam agreed to include a summary of discussions that occur during the formation of the agenda into the minutes, and in fact had already updated the previous minutes with his understanding of what that might look like. Full and unedited archived discussions will be maintained in an archived_agendas directory in svn. Jim to review the updated and annotated minutes.
On September 1st the current contracts for Executive Assistant and Secretarial Assistant expire, which means that we should have resolutions in place by the August meeting if we want to renew either or both of the contracts. Prior to that point, we should discuss whether we want to reduce, modify, or expand these roles. Should we issue credit cards for the Executive V.P. and/or the V.P., Apache Infrastructure? And if so, what should the credit limits be? Credit Card discussion was tabled to the mailing list Planning to attending OSCON: Aaron, Justin, Geir, Sam, Greg
The Audit committee intends to seek outside help, and may need to require funding to do so. No concerns were raised.
A. The date for ASF Members Meeting was confirmed to be June 3-5.
Henri will not be attending ApacheCon EU. Sam's attendance is doubtful at this time. The VP of Legal Affairs reiterated that resolving the 3rd Party Licensing policy is being pursued by the Legal Affairs Committee and requested that discussion be directed to legal-discuss. No objections were raised.
A. Brett Porter wants to make a request of the board regarding the Maven repository. Brett will be available during the meeting to inform and discuss this. B. Justin Mason called the board's attention to a patent claim by Trend Micro towards Barracuda Networks. Some background is available at http://taint.org/2008/01/29/215108a.html Justin asked about an official statement from the ASF which resulted in a short discussion on the board list. Henning volunteered to bounce this "officially" to legal for discussion to find out whether we should have / have / don't have an official opinion about this.
Sam presented the following for discussion: "Reciprocal" licenses and Scripting languages This isn't so much a legal issue as a policy issue, so I'd appreciate feedback from the rest of the board. For compiled languages, reciprocal clauses in licenses like MPL and CDDL are a key differentiator from licenses like BSD and the Apache License, Version 2.0. For scripting languages, this isn't as burdensome, or potentially even relevant at all. But there is another difference that may be relevant to some, and that is that the Apache License is sublicensable. Including in a distribution, or otherwise having a dependency on MPL licensed source code (for example: FCKEditor by Cocoon) prevents the package as a whole from being transparently sublicenced, something that is a core value of our business friendly licence. I see two ways of looking at this issue. One is that such licenses do not prevent us from licensing our works under the license of our choice, so it should be allowed, if properly labeled. The other is that it is yet another step down the slippery slope that erodes the foundation's core values. In the interest of time, further discussion was directed to the board@ mailing list.
* Third party licensing. What's the status? This was asked at the Members meeting. Sam promised a status update at the next meeting.
A. ASF Members Meeting - set date and time. Based on discussion on members@, Sam to double check and announce the date for this meeting. At the present time, Dec 11-13 looks like the most likely candidate. B. Set Time and Place of next board meeting in Atlanta. The meeting will be held on Wednesday, November 14th over lunch.
We discussed what an action item is. A request was made that everybody who sees something that specifically requires tracking call out said items.
A. Role of infrastructure Various input, not all consistent or coherent: * great job, need a solaris zone for new services * we need to do a better job organizing volunteers * more use of sandbox/asylum * infra role mixes policy vs resources * dim's idea of using yahoo boxes for sandboxes * a smaller number of services, well supported is better than a large number of services spottily supported * unpaid volunteers without a track record are presumed to being prone to disappear. Products like MoinMoin, JIRA and others tend to be used beyond expectations, so sandboxes don't solve the problem. Sandbox takes a lot of time. More machines can be ordered, but people can't be. * need and don't have an infrastructure roadmap * we need a way to "grow" new volunteers * happy with three 9's. hiring people makes us lose volunteers * self fulfilling prophesy: pushing away volunteers, and using that to justify the need to hire * need two realms, one at 3 nines, another at a higher level * need a volunteer to help coordinate B. When to schedule next board meeting. Is Sept 19th too soon? We decided to hold the meeting on Sept 19 as originally planned.
A. New ASF/JCP Policy, including action/reaction schedules and timeframes. The intent is to come up with a clear policy, standards by which the ASF will continue to participate in the JCP, changes required for that participation and our course of action if such changes are not implemented. Outcome: 1) We will vote "NO" on any vote for a JSR led by a spec lead we feel is out of compliance with the JSPA 2) We will vote "NO" on any vote for a JSR where the spec lead won't commit to a FOU-free TCK licenses (for that JSR) 3) We will vote "NO" for any final vote where the presented TCK license terms aren't FOU-free (for that JSR) 4) We will move that the ECs adopt the following statement: "TCK licenses must not be used to discriminate against or restrict compatible implementations of Java specifications by including field of use restrictions on the tested implementations or otherwise. Licenses containing such limitations do not meet the requirements of the JSPA, the agreement under which the JCP operates, and violate the expectations of the Java community that JCP specs can be openly implemented." 5) We agree that additional publicity at this time would hamper efforts towards a successful resolution.
A. A request by the newborn Quetzalcoatl project to use the simplified subdomain python.apache.org raised the question of using external names. This is similar to concerns about java.apache.org by the Jakarta project (unacceptable due to Sun's trademark concerns), or perl.apache.org for the modperl project. A request to the PSF provided the appropriate permissions, so the project has requested that they might use this subdomain name, but there are apparently concerns by some directors yet to be resolved. Beyond the guidelines discussed in the review of the Quetzalcoatl, the board requests that further discussions should be between the project and Justin.
A. New ASF/JCP Policy, including statements on NDAs, FOUs, as well as action/reaction schedules and timeframes. The intent is to come up with a clear policy, standards by which the ASF will continue to participate in the JCP, changes required for that participation and our course of action if such changes are not implemented. The board discussed the perceived and real NDA requirements on our committers, EC and EG representatives. These break down into four classes of restrictions, and the corresponding board positions. * NDA of contracts and contractual discussion There was some concern expressed over the private nature of these discussions being both unnecessary and reducing our options for addressing differences; but overall the board was willing to let these discussions continue in private, as all other parties in the JCP are doing. Geir identified that at least one reference license for the TCK should be shared prior to the conclusion and approval of a JSR, and recent commentary by other EC members appears to share this position. Geir identified that we have permission to share the (final) contracts with any 'interested party', although these would not necessarily be published on the website. * NDA of the Specification Development Process The Board determined that today, the ASF encourages but otherwise has no opinion on open specifications development processes vs. closed development processes. It was pointed out that perfectly reasonable specifications have come from a single individual or closed groups, just as perfectly irrational specifications have come from open groups. As such - the ASF will continue to put forward EG representatives to either open or closed specification development bodies outside of the ASF. This does not change the policy that all ASF development discussions occur on open lists, here. The Board reserves the possibility of revisiting this policy in future years. The important point, the ASF Board does not seek to impose a specific methodology on outside, non-ASF efforts. * NDA to Use the TCK The Board is concerned about the burden and additional paperwork that we require of our committers to obtain the ASF's copy of TCKs and other reference material. Some of these works are under commercial, non-open license terms. As such, we will investigate if the NDA agreement is redundant, and if there are other/better ways to inform our committers of their responsibility under the material's own license, without additional obligations. The Board remains concerned about the possible burdens that are imposed by these TCKs, and will work to achieve fewer burdens on the users of TCKs and reference material through the JCP processes in creating open source implementations of the specification. As such, the ASF will seek a change the JCP establishing a date beyond which there will be no new TCKs created with NDA requirements. * NDA of the TCK Results The Board was informed there is a great deal of confusion over the exact restrictions imposed on the TCK results, and the ability of committers to discuss these matters over public development lists. Geir has taken an action item on this to write up the actual constraints on the use of the TCK results, so that the scope of the actual restrictions are better understood by the community, and so that no unnecessary secrecy is applied to development discussion. This will be posted to the JCP area of the ASF website. The Board understands that the net result of the reasonable interpretation of the TCK Usage license does not result in NDA obstacles to open source development. * Copyright of .dtd/.xsd files and other Reference Material As an additional action item, the Board will research the scope of pieces of reference material which have been committed to ASF repositories, and to whatever extent possible, will try to provide guidance on the use of these materials on the JCP area of the ASF website. Examples are files from the Spec Lead that contain confidentiality or other absurd clauses, when compared the requirement of their use in implementing the public, published specification.
A. Continued absence of reporting from VP of ConCom The board expressed its continued concern over the lateness or absence of ConCom reporting. Ken indicated that he is working on "rearranging" how ConCom operates to alleviate this problem (other ConCom members will be various conference "leads", for example). B. Set date of Annual Members Meeting to June 5 - 7, 2007. Jim suggested the dates of June 5 - 7, 2007 for the annual ASF Members Meeting, based on feedback from the membership. The board approved these dates. Jim will notify the membership and start the process of arranging the meeting.
A. Patent clause FAQ The status of the Patent Clase FAQ was discussed, specifically the entry below: Q: If I own a patent and contribute to a project, and, at the time my contribution is included in the project, none of my patent's claims are subject to Apache's Grant of Patent License, is there a way any of that patent's claims would later become subject to the Grant of Patent License solely due to subsequent contributions by other parties who are not licensees of that patent. A. No. The board expressed no concern with the above clarification. Cliff was to pass this along to our lawyers for comments and feedback.
A. The board discussed whether it made sense to scheduled a Special Members meeting for the express purpose of allowing for new members to be nominated and elected. Jim proposed the week of December 3rd. Jim will query the membership and gauge whether one is warranted or not.
1. The Maven Foundation Jason van Zyl is a respected member, and no longer works for Mergere, but has set up a separate fundraising effort for Maven infrastructure. Is this something the ASF should fund? What role should the Maven PMC have in this operation? The board had a few concerns with the above, not least of which was the trademark issue: Maven is a trademark of the ASF and the Maven Foundation would be confusing at least and infringing and the most. There was also concern on the potential confusion and damage it could create within the Maven project as well. Since Jason did not attend the board meeting, although he was expected, Henri was to contact him regarding the board's curiosity regarding the foundation. 2. Patent FAQ Doug Cutting drafted the following for the board to vote on: Q: If my company owns a patent and contributes to a project, and, at the time our contribution is included in the project, none of our patent claims are subject to Apache's Grant of Patent License, is there any way any of those patent claims would later become subject to the Grant of Patent License solely due to subsequent contributions by other parties? A. No. Patent claims subject to the Grant of Patent License are determined at the time of the patent holder's contribution. If, when you contribute to a project, your patent claims are necessarily infringed as a result of your contribution, then those patent claims are subject to the Grant of Patent License (even if your patent issues or is acquired later). But, if your patent claims are necessarily infringed only after a subsequent contribution by another party, the other party's contribution will not cause your patent claims to be subject to the Grant of Patent License. It was noted that the above was not in a format for the board to vote on, but it was discussed none-the-less. Doug was upset that the issue was still being debated, instead of a vote being held on it. Some directors were less than clear on what exactly was being asked, since the Answer seems to answer 2 questions, somewhat related but different. It was also agreed that despite claims that the above would be "limited" in scope, a board vote on it would make it a much more general policy, not something specific. Greg stressed that the board would be much more pro-active in following and addressing the discussion on the board list for this issue.
Ken noted that ApacheCon Asia was, by all initial counts, a big success. He will have more information within a month or so.
* Scope of CLA patent Grant (refer to discussion on legal@ and board@) The main point of the discussion involved the concept of whether "the work" refers to the project as a whole and as a growing entity or to the codebase as it exists at that point in time. The concerns whether patent issues are set at the time of contribution or continue as additional code and contributions (either from the original contributor or others) are made to a project. Cliff reported that he is still seeking clarification and will provide an update to the board at the next meeting.
Tabled due to time constraints.
A. Annual Members Meeting As reported in his report, Jim queried the membership regarding member meeting dates and formats. Based on the little feedback provided, the board decided to have a IRC-based members meeting, set for either June 13-15 (primary) or June 6-8 (secondary). Jim was to close the loop with the membership, obtain feedback and then officially schedule the meeting. B. Copyright dates in source files As noted in Cliff's report, this issue is currently being worked on. It was noted that it is against ASF policy, as well as simply wrong, to change Copyright dates when the files/codebases have not undergone "substantial" or "significant" change. C. OSI Membership Model
A. Replacement for Jim on Audit Committee
A. Apache Geronimo B. Set date for Annual ASF Member's Meeting @ ApacheCon. Proposed date: Dec. 11, 2005 (Sunday evening) Action Item: Greg to direct Jim to make Sunday evening official C. Courier Service Action Item: Justin and Greg to send plan by next board meeting. D. Infrastructure search committee candidate funding
A. Budget https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/foundation/Finances/2005-budget.txt It was recommended that the review of the budget continue on the board@ mailing list. Further discussion would be held at a special board meeting, set for September 29, 2005. B. Copyright notices Discussion on Copyright notices was tabled, but it was agreed that discussion could start and continue on the board@ and licensing mailing lists. C. Apache Geronimo project There was significant discussion on the problems within the Geronimo project. The general consent was that there was an undue amount of tension and non-ASF-like behavior within the project. There was additional discussion on whether matters were improving, getting worse or staying even. Some directors indicated their beliefs that matters were not getting better and that direct action was required to avoid Geronimo declining any further. It was reported by the current Geronimo PMC chair that, in his opinion, Geronimo had "turned around" and was starting to get better. This resulted in discussion on how the board should best proceed. It was agreed that this discussion should be continued at a special board meeting, scheduled for September 29th, 2005. D. Retain counsel to review our 501(c)3 legal status Justin indicated his desire that the ASF proceed with retaining counsel to review and ensure our 501(c)3 status. The board agreed that this was required, and Justin was tasked with further investigation into this matter. A status update was to be provided on September 29, 2005.
A. Copyright notices The Board is to create a Resolution detailing our position on this issue. Justin volunteered to craft this resolution. B. Retain counsel to review our 501(c)3 legal status Justin volunteered to take the time to review this issue and determine the course of action.
A. Require 3 PGP signatures for a release, ensuring 3 votes from a PMC. Conclusion of this discussion was that it was too much of an extra burden on the projects to make this a requirement.
A. Hire a sysadmin Justin will have two proposals to the board by our July 1st meeting: - Hiring a sysadmin on to our staff. - Outsourcing all infra@ activities to a third-party company. Discussion has started on infra@ for formulating these job descriptions. Discussion Item A, Hire a sysadmin, was tabled. B. Outsource bookkeeping Per Jason, EFF retains Silk, Adler, & Colvin for their 501(c)3 matters. Specifically, Rosemary E. Fei: http://www.silklaw.com/bios/fei.cfm Discussion Item B, Outsource bookkeeping, was tabled. C. BXA guidelines [gstein: 10 minute max] What is our policy? Who should committers contact? How does this apply to third-party software? (such as OpenSSL) See Will Rowe's posts to board@. Discussion Item C, BXA guidelines, was tabled. D. Distribution of third-party software from ASF infrastructure [gstein: 10 minute max] What is our policy? Less restrictive licenses? More restrictive licenses? Discussion Item D, Distribution of third-party software from ASF infrastructure, was tabled.
Geir asked the board if it had any concerns regarding his continued position as the ASF contact for the JCP. Geir's concern was mostly if his change in employment association would cause the ASF any undue concern. The board expressed its confidence that Geir could, and should, continue in his JCP role, assuming that he has sufficient time to adequately fulfill those duties.
A. J2SE Project Geir noted that he had sent an Email to member@ regarding the possibility of the ASF taking on a new project to create a compatible, open-source implementation of the Java Runtime Environment, allowing for a "complete" open source stack. B. Fair Use of Java Specifications from Sun. This item was tabled.
Greg indicated his desire to add the Executive Director discussion to next month's Board agenda.
A. Discussion was held on the means to increase cooperation between FSF and ASF. It was noted that the ASF received no action items from the conf call with FSF that was held on 11th Jan. The following were noted as main topics in the discussions. - Help Kaffe/Classpath's Free JVM initative - Ability to use LGPL in Apache projects - Ability to use Apache code in GPL/LGPL projects B. Discussion was held on lobbying as it pertains to 501(c)3 and whether it made sense for the ASF to elect also 501(h) (or friends) status. It was agreed that 501(h) was not appropriate or required for the ASF, nor did it really benefit the ASF in any way. C. Discussion was held asking all employed committers to get a CCLA on file from employer. It was noted that it is really the responsibility of the individual contributor to ensure that their CLA is valid, and to check with their employer if they have any doubts. Although the ASF welcomes corporate CLAs, they ASF will not currently require them. Instead, committers will be periodically reminded of their responsibilities per the CLA on a semi-annual basis.
A. LGPL: next steps The board verified that there was a rough consensus that Brians draft letter to the FSF was the right next step. Brian therefore had sent the letter to the FSF on the ASF's behalf. B. Conferences and ConCom It was reported that it was still too early to report on the full results of ApacheCon 2004, held last month, but that the event did appear to make a profit. However, the $25,000 bounced check to the ASF did not alleviate the board's growing concern and unease with Security Travel. There are also some reports of speakers not being paid and/or reimbursed. The board further discussed the difficulties we would face if Security Travel was not chosen as the organizer. Some of the issues would be: the time taken in searching for a new producer, trying to forge a new working relationship, and possibly trying out the new producer with a small conference or involving them with the ApacheCon Europe effort. ConCom is discussing internally the basic question "What Is, Or Should Be, ApacheCon." Some suggested considerations were the size of the conference, the pricing structure, and target audience(s) of the conference. The board spent some time in executive session discussing our contract details with Security Travel.
A. Conferences and ConCom The board expressed its extreme displeasure with the work done by Security Travel regarding ApacheCon. There was debate on whether the board should restrict ConCom from renewing any contract or agreement with ST. The general consent was that this restriction was not going to be placed, but that the board withheld the right to do so. The ConCom was tasked with "determining the look, feel and direction of ApacheCon" and submitting that to the board. The ConCom was further tasked with coming up with creative new ideas regarding what we want ApacheCon to be (ie: what is the major focus of ApacheCon? A revenue source? A community building effort? etc...)
There was continued dicussion regarding the LGPL and the depth at which an ASF project/codebase can require it. There was also continued discussion on how the LGPL is interpreted in a Java environment and whether such basic Java concepts as extending a Class or implementing an Interface marks the essential LGPL distinction between using a function and being "based" on it.
A. Visibility of CLAs Desired action: a decision on "how far" visibility reaches. Members, officers, committers, and/or the public. Possible alternative: delegate this decision to the incubator. This discussion item was tabled. B. Backlog of legal issues Desired action: establishment of a legal committee/project which frequently reports to the board. * Intalio agreement for OpenORB * CLA amendment from U of Memphis * J2EE SATCK agreements? * Apache trademarks? * response to JBoss letter received October 31, 2003 * D&O Insurance? * Response to EMC letter dated August 24, 2004 * Converting currently documents (CLA, CCLA) to PDF format Recommended set of actions arrived at by Robyn Wagner, Greg Stein, and Brian Behlendorf: * Invite Robyn to board@ (and possibly board-private@) Non-privileged communication amongst ASF members. * Rename legal@ to legal-internal@, limiting membership to Board and Robyn only, for attorney-client privilege. Potentially invite other trusted legal advisors. * Encourage the use of firstname.lastname@example.org for discussions related to legal issues that do not require special privilege or limitation to ASF members. Turn off licensing@, move discussion to community@. * Create a shell account for Robyn, with apmember group access, and access to all CVS and SVN repositories. Give her instructions on access and time to get acquainted with history. * Status and work items to be managed via the foundation/legal/STATUS file rather than an issue tracker or other means. The fact that our bias is to head towards maximal internal transparancy to ASF members was expressed, and the above is intended to balance that with the legal concept of attorney/ client privilege. Robyn will also be at ApacheCon. This discussion item was tabled, but will be discussed on the mailing list. C. More rigorous application of CLA The issue of provenance for contributions is becoming more and more visible. Contributions directly from committers are already covered, since we have ICLAs from them. However, contributions received through the mailing lists or the bug databases are still an issue we should consider. For the bug databases, which require signin in order to make a submission, a click-through page could be added saying 'you click on this then you agree to <terms>' could be added. What end-goal do we want, and how much effort do we want to devote to it? This discussion item was tabled, but will be discussed on the mailing list. D. Expectations of committers dealing with contributions More on the whole CLA issue.. are committers who are going to commit a contribution responsible for determining whether the contributor has filed an ICLA? This discussion item was tabled, but will be discussed on the mailing list. E. Copyright notices on imported files We need to determine what needs to be done with regard to copyright notices in imported files (such as the Derby sources), and in files or contributions originating outside the ASF in general. Perhaps changing the [IC]CLA forms to assign copyright rather than licensing it, or changing the copyright notice we add to apply to the project rather than the individual file (Jennifer's suggestion), or ... This discussion item was tabled, but will be discussed on the mailing list. F. Confirming that the current stance on @author tags as per Greg's email message of February is still appropriate (Recommend strongly that @author is avoided; but leave it to each PMC to make the final call with their respective communities.). This was confirmed. G. Normalisation of document location Some entity (the incubator?) should be responsible for the normative versions of documents, and references should point there. For example, multiple projects seem to have their own copies of the CLA forms, which are out of synch with the actual approved ones. This discussion item was tabled, but will be discussed on the mailing list.
A. Visibility of CLAs Desired action: a decision on "how far" visibility reaches. Members, officers, committers, and/or the public. Discussion Item 6 A, Visibility of CLAs, was tabled. B. Corporate CLAs It appears that there may be incomplete understanding of what the current CCLA requires of the ASF. It imposes burdens on the Foundation that did not apply before. Jennifer Machovec, legal council for IBM, was invited to participate in a discussion over the current versions of the Corporate CLA and recommended changes to it, mostly as related to the Derby code donation, as well as to basic enhancement and protection. The revised Corporate CLA was to list all employees authorized to contribute code as well as the individual projects to which they can contribute to. Jennifer noted that the suggested changes provided an "irrevocable donation of code" in any and all circumstances, even if the employee had made a mistake. It was remarked that this would place the ASF under additional administrative burdens, monitoring and matching CVS commits against the list. It also tends to move the ASF further and further away from the core concept of a "relationship" which the ASF has been built on, that of the ASF with regards to the individual. It was remarked that the ASF's "web of trust" extends between the ASF and the individual contributor, and, at least in the opinion of some directors, that is as far as it needs to be. It was further discussed that the proposed changes would, in the minds of several directors, make the development environment with the ASF less healthy and organic, but placing restrictions on which projects people could work on. The CLAs were supposed to open the doors for people to contribute, rather than close or restrict them. Jennifer stated that, in her opinion, this was leaving the ASF in a risky position and could leave it open to "problems" in the future. The board's position was that taking authority and ownership over controls that should really be placed by the individual him/herself or between an employee and employer was likely more dangerous and risky. In essence, the ASF works with people who have exhibited a high level of trust, and that we can therefore trust them to do the right thing. And if they don't, it isn't something that the ASF has monitored or controlled, so the impact to us directly is much smaller; taking on those responsibilities opens us up to more risk. It was correctly noted that the present Corporate CLA and v2 of the Apache License are incompatible. Jennifer stated that she would take our comments under review and try to work up another revision. C. Derby code drop The Derby code is ready to be uploaded to the Apache repository, but the legal documents need to be sorted out first. In addition, it appears that an export-control form will need to be submitted before the code can be published from our site. Discussion Item 6 C, Derby code drop, was tabled, mostly due to the issues and topics discussed in 6 B.
Due to time limitations, all discussion items were tabled. A. J2EE TCK License Update B. Non-disclosure for membership C. D&O Insurance D. Policy for CLAs and non-committers
Consideration of discussion items was tabled until after committee reports were reviewed. Discussion returned after Committee Reports at 12:04 PDT A. Status of formal response to JBoss Greg will have response reviewed by Robin, and Geir will continue to augment URLs with contents of URLs in the document. Sam and Geir are in favor of publicly posting the document once reply is sent. B. Status of TCK J2EE license Geir continues to work with Sun. Plan is to post on Sunday on Geronimo site the existing NOTICE if not resolved with Sun (or the new NOTICE if resolved.) If not resolved, Sam has requested that a note to some effect indicating ASFs problems with the NOTICE, and one or more examples of our proposed solutions. Geir has requested a status review before doing that in the event that progress is being made. Will follow up with email on board list at the time if appropriate. C. Should we pursue Directors and Officer's Insurance? Greg noted that historically, the opinion was that it wasn't worth it. Sam asked that the issue be revisited. Plan is to do independent research to find out what other non-profits do, figure out a order-of-magnitude cost, and revisit the issue in the June meeting.
A. Status of formal response to JBoss As previously mentioned, some legal issues had been tabled until after the election of the board. Now that this has been done, these issues will be resolved. Greg noted that at present, only himself was authorized to contact Robyn regarding legal work to be done on behalf of the ASF. To avoid any potential "bottlenecks," Geir and Brian was also added to the "approved" list of ASF contacts for Robyn. After this discussion, Geir reported that he would finish his draft of the response, ensuring that all references are actually part of the response (ie: no links), which would then be submitted to the board and Robyn for review. B. Status of TCK J2EE license C. Status of proposed CLAs D. Schedule for regular meetings The current schedule is (generally) the third Wednesday of every month. Sometimes it is altered to the fourth Wednesday, as detailed in cvs:committers/board/calendar.txt. Question: should this scheduling remain?
A. Discussion: Gluecode A short discussion on Gluecode took place but there were no actions necessary. B. Discussion: PR/Marketing The draft Marketing/PR plan (CVS board module 'apache-marketing.txt') was discussed. Note that file is ASF Confidential since it discusses a private arrangement with Schwartz. Greg talked about Susan and how it would be nice to make our relationship with her official so she is able to take necessary actions for PR and marketing purposes. It was generally agreed to be a good idea to promote the purpose and direction of the ASF to give foundation credibility and visibility. It was also thought that this will help with fundraising efforts. While it would be good to have a VP level marketing position at some point it was proposed to make Susan a marketing director (no signatory, but a point person) possibly as soon as next month. C. Discussion: audit stuff There was a small discussion on the difference between having a CPA and someone who could sign off on an audit about Sarbanes-Oxley. Chuck to work out what the ASF needs. D. Discussion: JBoss response The status of the JBoss response was discussed; the response has yet to be sent. E. Discussion: CLA update? There was a small discussion about the status of the proposed new CLA and concern that the progress of it had been stalled. Sam Ruby took an action to check on the status of this and work out what will be required to make the new CLA official. The PMCs also need a reminder to be sent for pending CLAs. F. Discussion: Best Practices? This item was tabled for future discussion. G. Discussion: Ken Coar's request to use the Apache trademarks Ken mentioned that he would like to use the Apache trademarks on items from CafePress to be made available to members for cost price. The board will write a proposal to be approved by the board later which will give Ken the non-exclusive rights to use Apache trademarks on items sold to ASF members at cost for one year.
A. Discussion: Policy for Third-Party Code in Apache Releases There has been too much confusion over what may be included in a source code or binary distribution of an Apache release from apache.org. Below is a proposed policy to be publicly posted to address this confusion. The board would also need to set a date for conformance to this policy. 1. If anything is unclear or in doubt, bring your questions to email@example.com. Better to ask early than late or never. 2. Source distributions must be under the terms of the Apache License. Source distributions may include third-party software under other licenses, but those licenses must not place requirements or restrictions on the code, even those subsets of code, that go beyond those of the Apache license. 3. Binary distributions may include third-party libraries that allow for redistribution in combination with code under the Apache License. The existance of any library whose copyright terms go beyond that of the Apache License *must* be prominently mentioned in the LICENSE file accompaning the binary distribution (appended after the Apache License), and all requirements of the licenses of the third party code must be followed with respect to attribution, labelling, et cetera. 4. It is the responsibility of all developers to be aware of the licenses on included code, to follow those requirements, and make those requirements clear to the recipients of their code. The board approved the above "talking points" regarding third-party code in Apache releases. Notice will be sent to members@. B. Set a date for the annual Members meeting (in May) May 18th was sent for the date of the Annual ASF Members Meeting, to be held via irc.
A discussion was had on how codebases arrive at the ASF. Last year, the Board created the Apache Incubator Project to deal with these incoming codebases, primary to ensure that the proper IP guarantees have been made, and also to ensure that any community arriving with the code is aware of ASF processes and requirements. However, there are many cases where codebases happen to have been elsewhere by ASF committers, which makes it much easier to "bring the code [into the ASF]". The Board is crafting guidelines for when a codebase can be directly imported and verified by a PMC, and when it is required to use the Incubator for that process. Information will be posted to firstname.lastname@example.org when those guidelines have been completed.
As noted in the Chairman report, Greg had not yet had this discussion with the PHP Group, but would be doing so within the next week or so.
The discussion was again initiated on the email@example.com mailing list, and has again show the depth and width of what it means to various people. The discussion will be allowed to continue, free-style, for another week or so, and which point Jim will draft up a list of some sort detailing what appears to be the main value points. This will be presented to members@ at which point, we will start including community@ into the discussion as well. Outside perceptions can be quite illuminating.
The board decided that in the interest of openness and in order to better explain the workings of STV, the vote and the tally record for the board election should be published. (The secretary notes that on reflection it was not clear whether this applied to previous board elections or just the most recent one). Jim will be asked to action this. It was decided that the results of new member elections should not be published, as the potential new members are not notified in advance and so could be caused needless embarassment in the event of non-election or a subsequent refusal of membership.
It was noted that only around half the members actually voted, which could cause problems reaching quorum as the size of the ASF increases. It was observed that it would take a change of the bylaws to enable non-attending members to be forcibly declared emeritus, but that this could be done when it became necessary to do so, and is not needed pre-emptively. It was decided in any case to contact members who have not participated in ASF business recently to see if they would prefer to voluntarily go emeritus. No-one in particular took this action, however.
The board decided that the voting was valid, and hence the election of the board as shown in the Members Meeting Minutes should stand. It was independently discussed whether there should be a revote anyway, in light of various members misunderstanding of the system and other misgivings, but it was decided that there was not sufficient cause to justify the time and effort required to stage a revote.
This was already discussed during the Treasurer's report, item 4B.
This was tabled in the interests of time.
See 4B/Treasurer's report.