Index Links: 2009 - All years - Original
                    The Apache Software Foundation

                  Board of Directors Meeting Agenda

                        November 1, 2009


1. Call to order

    The meeting was scheduled to start at 2:00pm (Pacific) and began at 3:06pm
    when a sufficient attendance to constitute a quorum was recognized by the
    chairman.  The meeting was held at the Ovid winery, St. Helena, CA, USA.

2. Roll Call

    Directors Present:

        Shane Curcuru
        Doug Cutting
        Justin Erenkrantz
        Roy T. Fielding
        Jim Jagielski
        Geir Magnusson, Jr.
        Brett Porter
        Greg Stein

    Directors Absent:

        Brian McCallister

    Officers Present:

        Paul Querna
        Sam Ruby
        Noirin Shirley
        Sander Striker

    Officers Absent:

        none

    Guests:

        none

    Jim thanked Doug for making the arrangements for this meeting.  Literally
    everybody enthusiastically seconded this sentiment.

3. Special Orders

    A. Establish the Apache Community Development Project

       WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
       interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
       Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
       Committee charged with coordinating community development
       efforts.

       NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
       Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Community
       Development Project", be and hereby is established
       pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further

       RESOLVED, that the Apache Community Development Project
       be and hereby is responsible for helping people become
       involved with Apache projects; and be it further

       RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Apache Community
       Development Project, be and hereby is created, the person
       holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board
       of Directors as the chair of the Community Development PMC,
       and to have primary responsibility for management of the
       projects within the scope of the Apache Community Development
       project; and be it further

       RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
       hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
       Apache Community Development Project PMC:

        * Ross Gardler <rgardler@apache.org>
        * Luciano Resende <lresende@apache.org>
        * Santiago Gala <sgala@apache.org>
        * Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org>
        * Ted Dunning <tdunning@apache.org>
        * Noirin Shirley <noirin@apache.org>

       NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Ross Gardler
       be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Community
       Development Project, to serve in accordance with and
       subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and
       the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation,
       retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor
       is appointed; and be it further

       RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Community Development PMC
       be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws
       intended to encourage open participation in the Apache
       Community Development Project.

       Special order 3A, establish the Apache Community Development Project,
       was approved by Unanimous Vote of the directors present.

       Furthermore, the board requested that this PMC take over the stewardship
       of the community@ and women@ mailing lists.

4. Discussion Items

    Justin informed the board that he has appointed Philip M. Gollucci
    to VP, Infrastructure, replacing Paul Querna.

    A. Restructuring the PRC?

     Jim indicated that he would like to discuss this one first.

     Shane would prefer to meet with the people involved at ApachCon and to
     be given an opportunity to present their proposal at the next board
     meeting in November.

     Jim would prefer to give some guidance so that the PRC doesn't produce
     recommendations that the board would not be predisposed to accept.

     Shane intends to present resolutions at the next board meeting to
     dissolve the PRC and to create new, smaller committees, and he believes
     that this will likely meet with the board's approval.

     Sander asked if we really need a committee, wouldn't an officer do?
     Noirin feels that such an approach would squelch discussion.

     Many (including Roy, Sander, Justin) felt that committees don't respond
     in a timely fashion, and this is necessary for matters such as PR.

     Doug argued that trademark approval and website presence are two
     distinct tasks, the former can be modeled after how the current Legal
     Affairs Committee approaches problems.

     Justin argued that trademark issues are somehow "softer" and more
     subjective than legal issues.  Sam pointed out that legal policy issues
     are often very subjective.

     Greg asked whether reorganization would solve the problem.  Sander
     indicated that historically, the overlap in personnel was nearly 100%.
     Sam stated that he didn't believe that reorganization will solve
     anything, the fundamental issue is personality issues.

     Geir suggested that Shane delegate.  Greg and Roy indicated that board
     committees can't delegate.  Jim and others discussed how it could work,
     with the VP of PRC having oversight.  Justin was concerned that this
     created a new level of oversight.  Greg feels that we have learned from
     the umbrella projects in the past.  Jim and Sander felt that flowing
     the coordination of, e.g., sponsorship and communication, through
     the board wouldn't be timely.

     Justin indicated that delegating the creation of the budget would have
     addressed a number of the issues we had in the approval of the budget
     last go around and suggested that going forward that groups like the PRC
     propose initial drafts of budgets.

     Sander is particularly concerned about the time sensitivity of PR issues.
     Roy indicated that the way to solve this is to not have PR be done by a
     committee.  Jim named an individual who would be excellent at this.
     
     Roy suggested that the board create the organization structure, and let
     Shane staff it.  Shane felt that it would be more efficient if the people
     who staffed it provided input first.  Doug suggested that the board
     should provide a first draft.  Justin feels that the board already has
     the input it needs to make a decision.

     Shane noted that there are other items on the agenda, and suggested that
     we move on.  Sander made it clear that this needs to be solved by the
     November meeting.  Shane agreed to this deadline.

    B. Subversion contribution

     Greg asked if the board would be OK with PR prior to acceptance.  Justin
     indicated that it was important as it would allow the ASF more control
     over the message.  Doug and Geir felt uncomfortable with setting
     precedent.  Sam asked if there was a general policy for granting such
     objections?  Noirin feels uncomfortable with the board imposing this.
     Roy noted that this is an exception that might make sense in general for
     large, well known, and preexisting open source projects.  Sam asked whether
     SpamAssassion could have fallen under such a criteria, and Greg, Justin,
     and Noirin concurred.

     The board agrees that the proposed contribution of Subversion to the ASF
     would be such a significant event, but leaves it to the Incubator to
     decide if a waiver is appropriate as the board does not want to interfere
     with the workings of the incubator.

    C. Budget

     Justin/Paul requested $18K to cover converting Gavin's sysadmin position
     from a part time to a full time position.  Geir asked why this was a
     surprise, and Paul confirmed that this has ended up being a larger task
     than was originally anticipated.  Greg asked what the year to year
     commitment would be.  Essentially this makes the sysadmin personnel
     budget to be approximately $150K a year. Sander asked whether there will
     likely be another request in six months to a year for yet an additional
     half-person.  Paul indicated that he didn't think so.  Sander is
     concerned about burn-out.  Greg asked whether this was an indication that
     we did not have the right people for the job, or whether the job is
     simply too big, and the general consensus was that the nature of the job
     requires this level of effort.

    D. Future of ApacheCon?

     Noirin asked what does the board want?

     Geir noted that Hadoop World was larger than ApacheCon.  Roy felt that was
     weird as he felt that ApacheCon contained Hadoop, and therefore should
     draw more people.  Others felt that event focus was a feature to some
     attendees.

     Noirin would like to see Concom running project-specific conferences like
     Hadoop World, and focused multi-project conferences (for example, "Lucene
     & Friends"), in conjunction with project communities.  Noirin believes
     that ApacheCon does bring in both money and contributors.

     Noirin noted as an issue that PMCs don't know whether or not they need to
     get ConCom's approval when running events using ASF project names, so
     they don't.

     Justin indicated that he has a problem with third parties running
     conferences centered around Apache software.  Doug sees this similar to
     third parties shipping our code, which the ASF not only allows but
     encourages, and therefore not a concern.

     Justin indicated that he felt that the Hadoop PMC was involved with
     Hadoop World based on the fact that a significant percentage of the
     Hadoop PMC members presented at Hadoop World.  Justin reiterated
     displeasure with the notion of PMCs being involved in conferences
     concerning Apache software without involving ConCom.

     Noirin asked for an up or down vote: keep ApacheCon in the current form
     or can it?  Straw poll: 3 to 3.

     Noirin rephrased the poll to see if the board supported the notion of a
     have a broad spectrum conference at all?  Straw poll: 4 to 3.

     Doug asked if there was interest in running more focused conferences?
     Straw poll: 6 to 0.

     Roy feels that the ASF should not be in the business of producing
     conferences -- preferring the existing model where conference companies
     produce conferences and the ASF contracts with these companies.

     Justin notes that events creates confusion about sponsorships.  Some
     companies prefer to sponsor the foundation, others prefer to sponsor
     individual events, some are OK with splitting.

     Jim suggested that the ASF should invest more of the ASF sponsorship
     money towards conferences organization, etc.  Doug felt that was risky.

     Jim is sure that we can (and have before) easily find companies to help
     us produce very focused (1 or 2 ASF project related) conferences (eg:
     (Apache) Hadoop World), so that doesn't seem to be an issue. The main
     issue is what how to best support those ASF projects that lack a "sugar
     daddy" company (or companies) that will pick up the ball and do that kind
     of event. Does the ASF have any responsibility or desire to help *those*
     ASF projects? If so, then the only way he can see that happening is via us
     continuing an ApacheCon-like event for their benefit.

     Jim doubted that companies that produce conferences would continue to be
     interested in Apache-wide conferences.  Roy noted that this solves the
     sponsorship issue -- e.g., there would be no confusion between
     contributing to Hadoop World vs the ASF.  Justin continues to be
     concerned with third parties creating conferences around ASF software.

     Sander is concerned that if we don't have an ApacheCon, we will lose the
     benefit of cross-pollination.  Geir asked if the cross-pollination is
     measurable?  Noirin indicated that she has a lot of anecdotes.  Geir
     asked if the ASF could do a summit or such instead of having talks, and
     Noirin asked how many people were planning on coming to the upcoming
     Apache retreat, and got a few non-committal answers; the conclusion being
     that structured conferences with prepared talks seem to be more effective
     for the ASF in terms of attracting a diverse set of participants.  She
     also noted that broader focused events historically have attracted a
     greater percentage of female participation than more tightly focused
     events.

    E. Officer appointments

     This previously was deferred to December, but Greg made a proposal that
     the board set up the expectation at the next election that future boards
     will have a F2F each August, and would appoint Exec Officers in
     September.  He further proposed that the current board plans to make
     officer appointments at the next board meeting in November, after issuing
     a call for officer nominations to members@.

     Jim agreed.  I could not gauge the sentiment of the room as the group was
     in the process of preparing to adjourn, but I did not hear any
     objections to either proposal.

    F. Executive Director/Assistant?

     Deferred.

    G. Mission/Vision of ASF?

     Deferred.

5. Review Outstanding Action Items

     Deferred.

6. Unfinished Business

     Deferred.

7. New Business

     Deferred.

8. Announcements

     Deferred.

9. Recess

    The meeting recessed at 5:35 Pacific Time.

    The meeting resumed at 4:53 Pacific Time on Tuesday, Nov 3.  Attendance
    included Jim, Doug, Geir, Sam, Noirin, Shane, Roy, Greg, Justin, and
    Brett.

4. Discussion Items (resumed)

    A. Restructuring the PRC?

    Roy indicated that the PRC is not making decisions, because there are no
    recorded minutes.  Sam asked if the Legal Affairs Committee is making
    decisions.  Roy indicated yes, as there is a paper trail, via JIRA and the
    web site.  Jim suggested that the PRC be restructured as either a
    President's committee or a PMC.  Roy indicated that it really isn't a
    problem as no one is objecting.  Jim indicated that previously the PRC and
    the Legal Affairs Committee were board committees as they make policy
    which is the purview of the board.

    Jim asked if there was anything Shane would likely propose that the board
    would say no to.  Roy indicated that if Shane were to propose
    significantly exceeding the current budget envelope.  Justin mentioned
    that if Shane were suggest a committee instead of an officer that would
    cause concern.  Shane mentioned that nominating officers that have a
    perceived conflict of interest would also cause concern.

    Jim noted that we were talking about theoreticals and need to focus on
    guidance.  Justin believes that we have a working model with a VP of
    infrastructure.  Shane believes that PR is fundamentally different.
    Justin and Shane agreed to disagree for the moment.  Shane believes that
    it is important to grow new leaders.

    D. Future of ApacheCon?

    Jim asked if board support the idea of having a broad focused event.  Roy
    noted that nobody would object to the question as asked.

    Jim asked if we should focus on having large (hotel based) events, or
    on smaller meetups.  Shane and Brett expressed support on smaller meetups.
    Doug felt it was worth distinguishing between outward focused events and
    inward events (things like retreats).  Geir questioned whether it made
    sense to do inward focused "How Apache Works?" sessions.  Doug suggested
    that inward focused events so focus on doing work (e.g., "hackathons").
    Jim suggested that we should revisit ideas of co-locating with an
    OSCON-like conference.  Noirin posed the question as to whether the ASF
    would be willing to give up control over the content of conferences.

    Jim suggested that the "heyday" of large conferences are gone, and we
    need to change (give up control).  Doug indicated that our needs for
    inward and outward conferences are in conflict.  Justin wondered whether
    both styles of conferences should be done at arms-length.  Doug believes
    that we need to have inward facing conferences which are run by the ASF.
    Justin wondered if we had a financial limit on what types of conferences
    we are willing to run.  Noirin indicated that such costs would actually be
    higher as conferences are currently a profit center, the ASF would not
    only be paying for expenses, it would be giving up a profit opportunity.
    Jim noted that as ApacheCon "cannibalizes" our ASF sponsorship funds, the
    ASF wouldn't actually lose all of that revenue, and overall the ASF would
    gain more than it would lose.

    Roy noted that we are lost in details here.  Jim asked for a show of
    hands for people who agree that the current ApacheCon structure be
    continue... large hotel, broad focus, etc.  Seven -1's, and one +0.

    Noirin indicated that there are signed contracts... should the ASF honor
    these.  The consensus was to execute on the existing contracts, but not
    renew.  Greg indicated that folding into an existing large conference is a
    distinct possibility.  Noirin is concerned that that would be perceived as
    Apache turning into an US event.  Justin indicated that we could continue
    our inward focused activities.  Greg suggested that the ASF could place a
    significant number of these events in Europe.  Noirin asked: "Who is going
    to do it?".

    Justin believes that we need a full time events planner on staff.  Noirin
    indicated that she would be happy with that.  Roy indicated that if a
    group of people want to do that, they should form a conference company --
    that's not what the ASF is good at.  Roy noted that he spent the first four
    years of the foundation saying to people that the reason for the success of
    the ASF was that the ASF doesn't do marketing.  Jim noted that people were
    looking to Roy and the ASF for info about what the ASF was doing and how we
    were doing it, and further noted that during the time the ASF was supposedly
    "anti-marketing" we still had ApacheCon which did promote the ASF and its
    projects.  Roy mentioned that there are conference companies that have
    been hugely successful in creating large, well marketed, international
    conferences (and mentioned RailsConf as an example).

    Justin mentioned Doug's split of inward facing vs. outward facing
    conferences again, and Roy said he was in support of hackathons at
    universities.

    Jim said that the cost (in terms of ASF time expended) vs the benefit has
    changed in the past ten years... for a few hundred attendees... what we
    have now is a net loss in terms of effort expended versus overall value.

    Geir asked if Noirin got enough feedback.  Noirin would like to hear more
    feedback on Justin's suggestion that we hire an organizer.  Some support
    for a single event hiring, but nobody outside of Justin was supportive of
    a standing position at this time (Shane's position was merely that we
    aren't there yet, but thought this was a good direction to head).  Greg
    and Geir thought the right approach was "thanks for volunteering!"
    responses to people who wanted a local conference.
    
    H. Appointing a chair

     Jim asked if anybody was opposed to having this item being discussed at
     this time.  Greg indicated that he was opposed, he wanted to see a slate
     of candidates.  Roy indicated that every potential candidate was in the
     room.  Sam noted that Brian was not present.

     It was agreed that all positions will be decided in November.

10. Adjournment

    The meeting adjourned at 6:05 Pacific Time on Tuesday, Nov 3.

============
ATTACHMENTS:
============

------------------------------------------------------
End of minutes for the November 1, 2009 board meeting.

Index